A 23 year old wants to be a stay at home wife?

[Ludlow2]

Friend's son had a girlfriend and both are 23.
She was keen to marry. Friend's son not so and his parents agreed.
Told him sort your career out,save up, find somewhere you will live. He agreed.
They split.
Both his parents work. My friend, his mother has always worked full-time and has a side business too. She is a great role model an although she is the breadwinner the father also works considerably hard.
Their children have and will benefit from this. They have also instilled good work ethic in their children too.
The friend's son and his ex girlfriend remained friends. She is keen to be with again and said she is happy.to wait and will continue with her studies maybe get a masters etc. She has then said that after marriage she does not want to work.

She thinks work is a want and not a need?

Obviously son Friend's son has run for the hills.
He did tell her it is impossible to survive on one income bla bla. But she just responded with we can move to a cheaper area and I'm not materlistic?

Im.just surprised at this attitude.

The girl's father left the family (Mother and siblings) whilst they were young.
Mother found another partner who comes and goes. Maybe it this why she is craving to be looked after by a man.
However, it sounds all so sad.

Sorry meant to quote this post on mine above

Oh yes, can't forget that.

Or the fact that we don't have a close bond with our babies.

I agree with you in many ways. But I think patriarchy is mutually oppressive. Imagine getting into a relationship with someone and there being an expectation that you’ll work full time for the rest of your life to enable them to be unemployed.

When children are involved, I’d generally take the suffering of a woman over the suffering of a man. Yes, women’s careers suffer when they have children, they’re often the victims of discrimination, and forced to make difficult choices. But I look at my brother-in-law, who’s the sole wage earner while his wife is a SAHM. His existence looks miserable - he works long hours in a very stressful job to provide for his family then comes home to children who reject him because they have a far closer relationship with their mother (obviously). His role in the family basically seems to be sperm donor and cashpoint.

But perhaps if our society were more equal and my sister-in-law felt able to/wanted to work, he would be able to play a more fulfilling role in his family.

I’m in no way an MRA or a ‘what about the menz’ type. I agree with everything you say. I just think patriarchal constructs can be mutually harmful.

B@Robinni I worked in several different nursing areas and there certainly can be adjustments for parents. One trust had a policy specifically for that which included only term time work. Ok the term time work wouldn't cover too many but one of my direct colleagues used it. Part time work or night work are ideas.
Private sector certainly can adapt round and agency nursing can be idea
There was a policy for carers leave- used both by women and men. We had Filipino nurses who the wards worked their shifts so that there was always someone home for the children - sometimes simply letting one parent leave earlier was an easy accommodation
Nursing can definitely be flexible for parents

@ToK1

Will you stop trying to push and agenda that I am not presenting.

I was trying to show the idea of a SAHM/W being defenceless and without income in the event of a split is a fallacy.

And that actually contrary to perceptions she would be entitled to more support (legal aid, free counselling, grants for education and living expenses) on top of a very generous benefits package.

Working a part time minimum wage job 20hrs per week she would have a comparable income to the average full time working Mum and would have plenty of time to retrain…

I never said that an average working Mum would be “drowning in stress”, but that comparatively she would have less access to support (not just monetary) and more pressure in her hour of need.

Which is scandalous really considering the amount she will have paid into the system over the years.

I'm in complete agreement. And I think the culture of 'toxic masculinity' - the set of stereotypes which tends to determine women = carers, men = breadwinners - or a cruder Me Tarzan You Jane appropriation of the same dynamic - is incredibly harmful to men. The Patriarchy often doesn't do them any favours either, if in some way they fail to fit with these narrow, regressive stereotypes.

On the point of another post upthread, I had to smile at people's surprise over allowing her son to have a toy pram. I tended to use a sling, but I hadn't realised the gendered colour-coding went beyond the tired old pink and blue. My son had a purple pram, and on the few times I used it I was asked by people to see my little girl. When the response was 'He's a boy', I got, 'OH! But the pram is PURPLE!'

So? That stuff's for the parents in any case, and I like purple. DS didn't give a shit what colour it was.

Also, when my son was about 4 he had an Elsa dress. My MiL's FACE when she caught sight of him wearing it was fantastic payback time for many a rude remark she'd made to me. Could have turned the milk sour at 50 paces ...

Coming to this VERY late but it’s so refreshing to hear this “feminism is about choice” canard demolished. It’s such a load of old toss.

Choice is meaningless if society doesn’t create a level playing field for those choices to be executed in.

I defend to my death the right of a silly 23 year old to think she wants to be a kept woman if that’s what she thinks she wants.

But I’m damned if I am going along with the idea it’s a “valid choice” to throw your financial autonomy out of the window for the rest of your life.

@Robinni

You said the wm would be under immense stress (something like that, cna looking back)

You definitely presented the argument with bias that the wm would be worse off

👏👏👏

You can as good as guarantee that when she gets to 33, she won't be thinking this.

At 43, even less likely.

By 53 she'll have died of boredom or be sick of having no independence or individual autonomy.

The #Trad Wives fad will have morphed into something that looks very different by then.

I love that every single person on here who says “there’s much more to life than earning money”……wouldn’t be able to do ANYTHING they do without someone else earning money to enable it!

If my husband asked me that actually, he would prefer gardening and getting beauty treatments over working, that would go down like a cup of cold sick. There is no way someone can see you as an equal if they pay for your entire existence, and you don’t contribute an equal amount of effort in your relationship. I couldn’t see someone as an equal if I worked hard every single day and came home to him reading interior design magazines and watching Midsomer Murders!

@5128gap

People seem to be predominantly measuring peoples contribution and value by how much they work.

People can contribute as a spouse, parent or other type of carer as well. It shouldn’t be disregarded.

What is missing from the equation is information if the girl aspires to have children straight away, or what she personally thinks she will be doing with her time…

Rather than this ex boyfriends mothers best friend who’s decided to judge, stick her nose in and spread the young woman’s story on the internet…..

I’d be more interested in hearing from the women themselves who aspire to this life, where their ideology has come from, and what they perceive is in it for them/why it takes precedence over other interests in life.

The 80% statistic, as far as I could gather is a from very small subset so isn’t representative.

Some will be jealous of kept women, some jealous of career types… the grass is always greener. But no one’s life should be dismissed or termed “silly” this that and the other.

As I said would be more interested if the girl herself presented her views rather than this gossiping bun fight.

IMO it is a valid choice (and it it part of feminism not to be told by a patriarchal society what the 'right' thing to do is). But this 23 year making this choice should acquaint herself with the risks involved. If she chooses to surrender her financial independence to a partner, there are no guarantees for the future, ie will she find herself suddenly single 20 years down the line with an empty CV and very limited work prospects. etc. But if she wants to take that risk, she should be free to do so.

I think there's a great deal of capitalising on the toxic masculinity which means men can be made to feel lesser if they don't 'provide'. Most people in these situations report it as 'the norm in my circle', talk about how its their Hs BIG job and high earnings that make it possible. For a man to buck that trend in asking his unwilling wife to work is tantamount to admitting he can't shoulder the burden like Nigel down the street can.
It was interesting to read the H's answer when asked by a poster why he liked her being at home. I'd have expected at least some of the benefits to be named, clean home, organised life, cooked dinner, instead his response was 'because it makes you happy'. Which while on the surface is 'lovely' but doesn't exactly indicate he sees much personal value, rather something he is gifting to her.
I must admit I don't tend to give much thought to how men fare with these things (they are after all the fortunate ones and don't need my concern!) but it's interesting to reflect on why they go along with a situation most of us wouldn't tolerate in them if the tables were turned.

@kc431

I love that every single person on here who says “there’s much more to life than earning money”……wouldn’t be able to do ANYTHING they do without someone else earning money to enable it!

This is one of the things that irritates me the most on these threads. On a previous one, I was called selfish and materialistic because I work yet they are more than happy for their husbands to work and to spend his money.

@SouthLondonMum22 Maybe this is one of the reasons why the women I’m surrounded by always take the full maternity and go back to work 3-4 days a week… (aside from us not getting the same childcare support as England).

It’s quite a nice area, breast feeding is the go to amongst them all, a few have carried on beyond a year old, bottle is frowned upon…. So I guess that makes women more subservient to child care needs.

Amongst my friends two combi fed, the rest breast fed until 6-8 months. All of my DH family bottle fed but they are working class and seemed to have issues with getting boobs out and not being allowed a drink.

This. Men who work are good providers. Women who work are materialistic and all their money goes on Louboutins and plastic surgery. Don’t you know that?

I am still breastfeeding my 3 year old, he has never had a bottle and I still went back to work at 9 months. It's used as a bit of an excuse to stay at home by some..

After 12 months for sure and many babies can go earlier, they don't need breastfeeds in the day and can manage with a morning and evening feed

All of my DH family bottle fed but they are working class and seemed to have issues with getting boobs out and not being allowed a drink.

Its just terrible isn’t it all these terrible working class people having children and not looking out for them 🙄

@Neurodiversitydoctor we live in an area where a four bed detached home could be a seven figure sum… in an ideal world yes you would say husband now it’s your turn to crack on with the childcare and let me get on and smash it!!

But there are bills to be paid, and if you dip out of certain roles (say consultant position) you’re unlikely to get them again - if he has moved up to 100k and you’re still on the 45k you were on 7yrs previous to having children… it doesn’t make financial sense. Picking numbers out of the sky but you can understand what I’m saying.

I do see a few mums and dads at school sharing the pick ups (as they’re both well paid and have more flexibility to dictate their shifts), but mostly it’s Mums and grandparents that appear.

You and DH were lucky to be able to dip in and out of your careers to support each other. It’s the way it should be but doesn’t often work out that way.

In my experience, most women go back to work part time at 9 months if they have breastfed for 6 weeks or 6 months or continue to breastfeed their toddlers.

I'm an outlier in going back at 3 months full time and formula feeding from birth by choice.

@Robinni

All of my DH family bottle fed but they are working class and seemed to have issues with getting boobs out and not being allowed a drink.

Positively dripping in classism here. Good grief.

Coming to this VERY late but it’s so refreshing to hear this “feminism is about choice” canard demolished. It’s such a load of old toss.

Choice is meaningless if society doesn’t create a level playing field for those choices to be executed in.

I defend to my death the right of a silly 23 year old to think she wants to be a kept woman if that’s what she thinks she wants.

But I’m damned if I am going along with the idea it’s a “valid choice” to throw your financial autonomy out of the window for the rest of your life.
This! 👏👏👏👏

Feminism as choice falls down quite quickly when you start noticing that women, especially poorer women have a very different set of choices available. When we see men, especially wealthier men, making the same 'choices' as women in difficult situations, and who've been shafted by patriarchy, then we can start talking about feminism as choice.

I'm very aware there are some decisions I make that are not the image of a perfect feminist. Society shafts women unfortunately and we're all influenced by patriarchal expectations and sexist expectations of women. I make the decisions I make WHILST also challenging the structures that lead to those expectations in the first place. The last thing I'll be doing is shouting from the rooftops that everyone needs to give me a high 5 for womaning nicely and avoiding asking any awkward questions.

Must be one of the rare anomalies where the working class can apparantly be looked down on by the unemployed.

Also there is no reason to abstain from alcohol when you're breastfeeding. As long as you aren't too hammered to care for your infant

Oh dear god this must be the THIRD time I have explained my divorce comment.

I have seen women who work full time divorce their husbands who work full time, because they had an unfair amount of domestic work placed on them. Essentially the women are double jobbing and the men are sexist pricks. I don’t think it is fair, there is a societal issue and not enough support for women to be in the work place.

As for the birthday parties etc… my commentary with regard to that is that it is exhausting - for parents - to cope with all that on top of full time work. As you will see when your child is older.

Stop twisting words to suit your agenda.