A 23 year old wants to be a stay at home wife?

[Ludlow2]

Friend's son had a girlfriend and both are 23.
She was keen to marry. Friend's son not so and his parents agreed.
Told him sort your career out,save up, find somewhere you will live. He agreed.
They split.
Both his parents work. My friend, his mother has always worked full-time and has a side business too. She is a great role model an although she is the breadwinner the father also works considerably hard.
Their children have and will benefit from this. They have also instilled good work ethic in their children too.
The friend's son and his ex girlfriend remained friends. She is keen to be with again and said she is happy.to wait and will continue with her studies maybe get a masters etc. She has then said that after marriage she does not want to work.

She thinks work is a want and not a need?

Obviously son Friend's son has run for the hills.
He did tell her it is impossible to survive on one income bla bla. But she just responded with we can move to a cheaper area and I'm not materlistic?

Im.just surprised at this attitude.

The girl's father left the family (Mother and siblings) whilst they were young.
Mother found another partner who comes and goes. Maybe it this why she is craving to be looked after by a man.
However, it sounds all so sad.

Of course they are, otherwise why is it almost always only the women who just can't possibly work because they have children?

It all comes down to sexism and stereotypical gender roles including what you listed above.

Why are nursery fees only a factor in the woman's salary, especially if the man is a higher salary? Why isn't he paying his share?

Why do only women want to be with their children all of the time?

Why are only women willingly sacrificing their careers and earning potential?

Why are only women taking long parental leaves when it is an option to share it or simply go back to work earlier?

Sexism.
Gender stereotypes.

@Zeonlywayisup

I agree with this.

I am caring for two disabled/frail family members at the moment. Plus the rest of the family and home/cooking.

DH works 55-70hrs pw.

I have lost a significant income to be able to dedicate myself and contribute to others, because there is no one else available to do the job.

I’m ill atm (Dh taken time off to cover me) but ordinarily get up about 6am, don’t stop until 10/11pm and I’m up through the night with the disabled child.

Horrified to see women put other women down like they have on this thread.

Whatever choices women make, paths they want or have to follow… it is not anyone’s place to judge and put them down.

Unless they are screwing over the system or doing something illegal… who the hell cares.

You are agreeing with a straw man argument. For one thing your personal circumstances are not the subject of the discussion, which is quite clearly about a childless woman with no caring responsibility deciding at the age of 23 she does not intend to work. Diverted somewhat by a poster initially insisting she had made the same choice (though later we learn she does in fact work after all in a voluntary role) I fail to see what this has in common with your life, other than you also don't recieve pay, which to me, is not the pertinent factor.
I agree we should not deliberately put women down. Which is why I take exception to posts claiming that 80% of women really want to be kept by men so they don't have to work, and work only because they aren't as fortunate as those who's husbsnds can 'keep' them, of whom they're very jealous (naturally!) It's equally as offensive as the view you incorrectly believe is being applied to your life.

@5128gap

Exactly!!

The leads to take offense have only been surpassed by the insults thrown mid leap lol

@SouthLondonMum22

Hate to point out the obvious but women are the ones who get pregnant, go through childbirth (and sometimes caesarean/vaginal tears/other birth traumas), breast feeding is advised until 6 months and a lot of women want to carry this out - at minimum - for the sake of their health and the baby’s which means being with the baby.

Men do not have wombs, nor breasts. They cannot carry they baby. They cannot feed the baby.

Yes you can pump and decant breast milk but you lose some of the beneficial factors (bacterial transfer for healthy colonisation of the baby’s gutt comes not only from the milk but also the skin of the mother when feeding) and pumping is bloody hard, often unsuccessful, the baby can refuse the bottle and breastfeeding can be skuppered by all the faffing about.

Amazingly, after carrying the baby and feeding the baby the woman has developed a close bond and wants to spend further time with her child taking the full maternity year. This want to be with her children that she has bonded with may extend beyond to early years etc.

The man stays in work because he has the higher salary… it isn’t always possible for them both to go 3/4 days each to share the burden. Paying for childcare is always shared; if one partner SAH/goes PT then the other pays entirely or pays a bigger proportion.

The major reason at home is not sexism and gender stereotypes but biology, wanting to do what’s best for baby in terms of feeding, and a personal need to bond with the baby.

There is sexism in the workplace in terms of pay disparity which is of influence, but then the couple are doing what’s best for them personally.

You wanted to go back to work when your baby was 12 weeks and didn’t want to spend the additional time bonding and breastfeeding. A lot of women do. And men are not biologically capable of doing this.

I think a lot of working women are still dependent financially on their husbands. I’m not sure why having a lesser paid job and managing the majority of home life is seen as superior to being at home but I suspect it’s just the story people tell themselves and why they are so hell bent on not being seen as at home.
The idea that history has been entirely driven by men is fairly blinkered. Perhaps if you think outside of your pay check you might notice what your fellow women have achieved.

If she is wanting to continue with her studies won't she have mountains of student debt? Who does she think will pay this off?

People do survive on one income. Many single parents do this every day, but it is often stressful and a lot of that stress could be alleviated by the assistance a second income would bring.

Many other women are trapped in financially abusive relationships with no means of escape due to lack of money or options.

@Robinni

That's just a load more sexism lol

Unless you think men don't want to bond with their babies.

The gender pay gap doesn't exist pre kids either

@monsteramunch

Savings of over 6k reduce entitlement.

Savings of over 16k mean no entitlement.

By your account a woman in her mid thirties would have her entitlement reduced, mid forties might get next to nothing.

As I already posted; working women who plan to leave their husband are often advised to hoard money which is not always sensible.

@Zeonlywayisup

Who has a lesser paid job and manages the home alone?

I dont.

I'm also well aware of the achievements of women

In science and technology, in medicine. In teaching and academia. In feminism and civil rights and gay rights. In politics. In law. In human rights

None of these were achieved by women with no desire to ever work.

Breastfeeding would be a valid point if we had decent breastfeeding rates here but we don't. By the time a baby is 6 weeks old, most are formula fed.

You can also have a close bond with your baby and work.

I earn more than my husband and manage the home equally with him.

I work in a male dominated industry and fought far harder than any man in an equivalent role. I'm incredibly proud of my achievements.

Well this is going way into philosophy, but there's a built in assumption that "going out and changing the world" is a) the only possible way to change the world and that b) humans mucking about changes the world for the better (some yes, majority, emphatically no).

It's a huge area of philosophy that I haven't reached firm conclusions on myself. But I know damn well that I'm sure that a significant amount of work is actively damaging the world and the people in it. If all of those people stayed home and didn't work, the world would be a better place.

Working culture could also change to be more accommodating of breastfeeding mothers.

I went back to work full time when dd was around 6 months old but carried on breastfeeding until she was nearly 3. Never pumped or expressed and she never had a bottle. I was able to work around her needs and my employer was happy to let me do this. It wouldn't work around some jobs, but lots of employers could do more....we don't all need to work 9-5 in an office, as the pandemic has shown.

And yes, absolutely you can work and have a close bond with your baby. It is ignorant to suggest otherwise.

But we know most women DO NOT earn more than their husbands and so presumably are benefiting financially from the decision of labour.

The idea that you can’t be proud of what you have achieved because it isn’t salaried is wrong. It’s nice that you’re proud of yourself/ves but sad that you fail to recognise there are other routes to that experience.

Due to 2-3years maternity plus all the faff in between they have lost some traction in career progression, DH has been able to plough on so after several years pregnancy/infant disruption it doesn’t make financial sense to demand DH takes the back seat.

I think the exact opposite, because I had had all the maternity leaves and faffs in between, it was his turn to step up with the childcare. DCs are now 19 &16, we both have careers which perhaps aren't as absolutely stellar as they might be but we are able to go on nice holidays, support DS at University and will pay the mortgage off before 60 with decent pensions.

FWIW DH had roughly 18m as primary carer when DD was 2/3 and DS was 4/5, this really enabled me to get my career back on track. I then went pt again when Dd was 5 to allow him to concentrate on his career.

Engaging in work, for those women who's circumstances don't prevent it, IS in my view the superior choice. If that causes offence to people who prefer to read in the garden, make their own homes look lovely and take care of a husband's needs, well that's too bad.
I can't pretend to believe that living ones life in sole pursuit of the comfort and happiness of yourself and one man is of equal value to getting out there and doing something that has a wider impact whether thsts paid or voluntary. To suggest otherwise is a polite fiction or self delusion.
Of course, as usual, this fairly indisputable point will be subject to the usual veiling behind a smokescreen of women who for good reason can't work, but those women are not the subject of debate here. The thread concerns unemployment as a lifestyle choice.
An inability to respect this particular lifestyle is not 'pulling women down' as im fairlycoertain it would prompt even greater disrespect if the person choosing it were a man.

Depends on what you mean. Routes which are voluntary and can benefit the community? Absolutely.

Routes which many people also do whilst also working full time such as cooking and cleaning? Not so much. That isn't an achievement, that's just life.

So the person who teaches the nonverbal to communicate, the person who runs the marathon, the person who delivers drugs food and contact during lockdown, the person who welcomes the refugee and helps them feel at home, the person who is the neighbour the vulnerable child can tell, the person who rescues dying wildlife, the person who rubbish picks daily, plants trees, writes poetry, is the voice on the end of the phone, (all women who don’t work I know), contribute nothing? Wow.

plenty of people do the above and also work, so the fact they're active/helpful community members isn't really a reason not to work

@Zeonlywayisup

No one said people who choose not to work can't be proud of themselves

I'm not sure how that list is relevant to choosing not to work

You can be a kind, helpful person and still work

There are a lot of people who think that volunteer or community work is only worth anything if you are shoe-horning it in next to a paid job. And the more hours you work in your job the more of a thing it is.

I, and the others I was alongside, actually noticed a change in some people when I stopped doing my volunteer role alongside my job. The fact I wasn’t juggling two ‘jobs’ made people see the volunteer side as something I was doing to skive work.

Thats despite the fact I gave up my actual job to care for my disabled DD (and had to massively step back in the volunteer side for the same reason).

If you’re not getting paid for something then to some people it doesn’t matter what you do, it’s just not worth any respect at all.

If you’re not getting paid for something then to some people it doesn’t matter what you do, it’s just not worth any respect at all.

Do you need others' respect, approval, validation or endorsement of your decisions?

Nobody has to respect my choices or otherwise. I couldn't care less.

You mean women who do voluntary work? Anything about the second word of 'voluntary work' give you the hint that's not what I'm referring to?
More straw men. More smoke and mirrors.

I didn’t say that I needed it.

I was simply commenting that to some people any work done for no financial reward is seen as lesser.

I don’t care either. But I do find it quite telling about people sometimes when you see their attitude toward something based purely on the financial aspect.