A 23 year old wants to be a stay at home wife?

[Ludlow2]

Friend's son had a girlfriend and both are 23.
She was keen to marry. Friend's son not so and his parents agreed.
Told him sort your career out,save up, find somewhere you will live. He agreed.
They split.
Both his parents work. My friend, his mother has always worked full-time and has a side business too. She is a great role model an although she is the breadwinner the father also works considerably hard.
Their children have and will benefit from this. They have also instilled good work ethic in their children too.
The friend's son and his ex girlfriend remained friends. She is keen to be with again and said she is happy.to wait and will continue with her studies maybe get a masters etc. She has then said that after marriage she does not want to work.

She thinks work is a want and not a need?

Obviously son Friend's son has run for the hills.
He did tell her it is impossible to survive on one income bla bla. But she just responded with we can move to a cheaper area and I'm not materlistic?

Im.just surprised at this attitude.

The girl's father left the family (Mother and siblings) whilst they were young.
Mother found another partner who comes and goes. Maybe it this why she is craving to be looked after by a man.
However, it sounds all so sad.

Any worldview that isn't interested in systemic issues that keep women oppressed isn't feminism in my opinion.

Your view of feminism seems to be that women should not be able to choose what they do in their lives. There is more to life than being a wage earner.

Your view of feminism seems to be that women should not be able to choose what they do in their lives. There is more to life than being a wage earner.
I haven't said that at all.
🤷‍♀️

Feminism is about equality and women are systemically oppressed. The oppression starts from birth with the socialisation and sexist stereotypes. It feeds into education, career choices, expectations on who is the default parent, who will take time off work when children are ill, who takes the hit to go part time, who gives up work, who is responsible for birthday presents and life admin, beauty standards, clothing, the way women are expected to 'be kind' and have boundaries eroded, it's about consent and misogyny. It's everywhere.

None of us make choices in a vacuum.

The difference between feminists and liberal-you-do-you-feminists is that feminists are interested in shedding light on systemic oppression, whilst the liberal feminists stick their fingers in their ears, say it's mean to question systemic issues, and like to act like any choice a woman makes should be without any question or debate.

Of course it will.
The children meantime will be feral and emotionally deprived.
Nutritionally deprived too because they are not eating all those meals cooked from scratch, which of course working parents simply cannot manage.

Not for men, there isn't. If a man doesn't want to be a wage earner, he's a cocklodger.

If a woman wants to be a wage earner? She needs to learn that there's more to life, she will be told she will absolutely need to give up her career by the time her children start school, she will be called selfish, she will be called materialistic, she will be called sick for putting her baby in nursery.

Fought for equality!

Besides Who wants to be dependent on someone else for the rest of their life, unless they have no choice!

👏👏👏

Yeah, but at least she won't get to the end of her life like my poor mum, wondering how she managed to let all of her talents go to waste; wishing that she had done more with her life; and regretting the fact that she never built up an independent pension of her own.

SouthLondonMum22
It's the way of the world sadly and lots of it is grounded in misogyny and sexist stereotypes.

Women get criticised on their parenting more because it's implied from day 1 that women are the default parents. Men are praised for doing very little because the assumption is that raising children is really women's work, so a father parenting is babysitting or helping.

If a man doesn't want to work he's a cocklodger. If a woman doesn't fancy working after marriage then that's ok to some because some women just find joy in housework and it's ever so helpful to the man to not have to trouble himself with domestic duties. The implications are that domestic work is women's work.

If he wants to be a SAHD he will be judged more harshly than if a mother wanted to stay at home. Why? Because the assumption is that men are the financial providers. Whilst we've gone some way to giving women greater choice on working or being a SAHP, there's still the default sexist assumption that raising children and the domestic side of life isn't for men.

It's everywhere.

To an extent, but not exclusively. I'm fortunate enough never to have personally required the services of a firefighter, brain surgeon or grave digger, but I consider these roles valuable because I recognise the contribution they make to people's lives in general.

It's ingrained. So much that some people don't even see it.

Even the little things too, like if I've popped out at the weekend without my baby and I bump into someone I know, without fail I'll be asked 'Where's baby?' like it it doesn't even occur to them that he's, you know, at home with his other parent.

How many times has my husband been asked the question in the same scenario? The answer is 0. Not once.

It's ingrained. So much that some people don't even see it.

Even the little things too, like if I've popped out at the weekend without my baby and I bump into someone I know, without fail I'll be asked 'Where's baby?' like it it doesn't even occur to them that he's, you know, at home with his other parent.

How many times has my husband been asked the question in the same scenario?The answer is 0. Not once.

Agreed.
When I went part time after having DC, the responses were all about how am I going to manage going back to work when DC are so young, but it's good you're only going back part time, they're only little once.
When DH went part time after having DC, the responses were shock, but what about your career, will work let you go part time, will your managers not think you're giving up on your career, I didn't realise you could do part time in that role.

It's everywhere from when children are small.

People seemed surprised when we allowed DS to have a toy pram. Why? Nobody could give an answer because of course what it boils down to is that prams are a 'girl' toy, and they're a girl toy because raising children is a woman's job. Did any bat an eyelid when his female friends played with dolls? Of course not.

@YetMoreNewBeginnings

equality is about choice

How?

There is more to life than being a wage earner.

That's very easy to say when someone else is earning wages for you. What if he also decides he wants to stop earning?

No it isn't. It's about equality. The most unfairly advantaged people usually have the most choices.

Yes, 100% this.

This grindingly repetitive misconception that 'feminism was the fight for choice' is completely misguided. It wasn't, and isn't. And nor is 'choice' the amazingly liberating thing those people make it out to be, when a social system whose primary if not sole interests are in the benefit of the patriarchy makes particular choices so difficult for women that often their 'choice' becomes the only realistic option.

A 'freer' - not not 'free' - choice is only remotely possible when something approaching equality of opportunity is reached.

Men are simply not put into this position. THAT is the inequality feminism has been striving to redress.

That's very easy to say when someone else is earning wages for you. What if he also decides he wants to stop earning?. Well presumably then you both have to work out how things will work.

I completely agree that there is more to life than being a wage earner. Luckily, I have never seen my job in that reductive light.

I guess it's hardly surprising that people choose to opt out of work if they don't get anything out of it apart from the paycheck. It's very different when you're paid to do something that you actually enjoy; something that connects you to like-minded people and enables you to make a positive difference; something that gives you a positive sense of achievement, a chance to utilise your talents and a boost to your self esteem. It is a pity that some people never find work that actually interests them.

@Zeonlywayisup

How, exactly?

It's very different when you're paid to do something that you actually enjoy; something that connects you to like-minded people and enables you to make a positive difference; something that gives you a positive sense of achievement, a chance to utilise your talents and a boost to your self esteem. It is a pity that some people never find work that actually interests them. perhaps not working does all that for sahw? Otherwise presumably they’d work?

It's interesting that you're skirting round the most obvious, and common, solution.

Yes, maybe some people do get that from SAH. For me, I would feel very limited if my only contributions were in the domestic sphere for my own family, but I do accept that some people are satisfied with this. For me, family is a very important part of my life but I would never want it to be my only focus as I saw how unhealthy that was for my mum. However, if it suits others, then fair enough.

Wrong. Choice - or what passes for it - can happen as a natural consequence of the fight for equality. It is not what the fight for equality is about.

This so made me laugh,

I remember several years ago now, there was something on TV about this which included someone going into a room with a baby dressed as a stereotypical boy or a girl and it was shown that a baby in a dress would be played with differently than a baby in say trousers and mummy's little man top and even offered different types of toy such as the baby when dressed as a girl would often be offered a doll but not when dressed as a boy.

It really does happen from the very beginning.

Don’t forget that apparently we don’t love our grannies enough as we dont visit them for two full days a week due to us being at work

Apparently that’s what we should be doing according to a pp because you never know how long they will be here for

I think that’s the post where I checked out because it had went so off course from what the OP was actually discussing