to not want people to judge those who recieve benefits????

[TidyTink]

Im a single mother of one,

i was working up until my DD (3) was born, rather than take a part time job that i knew i would always be stuck in i decided to get to college and study asubject that will lead me to a very hard working and well paid job so that i can fully support my DD in the future.

I hate recieving benefits and cannot wait untill i have finished my degree

Once i start at work i will be paying enough taxes in the future to more than cover the benefits ive recieved over the few yrs.

So why does everyone assume your a complete waste of space?? not all of us take advantage of the system!!!!

it is humilaiating. The DLA form is an exercise in making you document just how disabled your child is compared to the 'nrom' so you feel suicidal just writing it. Then they make you redo it every 2 bloody years in case 'anything has changed'
Like quad cerebral palsy and brain damage might sudden;y get better.
If DH hadn't of worked as a scientist in the public sector (MOD no less, working on defence for this country) he could have had a stonking wage and we could have employed a carer for dd and not had to give up work and go begging to the Guvmint then have poeple class us a riff-raff or low IQ public sector workers.
I don't mind people haveing large salaries, what I do mind is them then looking down on everyone else or making sweeping generalisations that we all have designer clothes and plasma screen TV's and go on holiday. They really haven't got a clue what its like to be cold cos you can't afford to heat your house as benefits are so paltry (lifestyle choice?) or hungry cos money ran out or the guilt over not being able to buy anything nice for your kids ever.
Not a bloody clue.

I?ve worked in welfare administration for almost twenty years now. In that time I?ve had death threats, people waiting outside the office to ?get? me for refusing them benefit, people bringing guns into the office and shooting out the screens (back in the day when there were screens) people shooting up in our toilets, people leaving their children in the office, suicide threats. In one of our offices in the eighties someone got into a working area and assaulted a member of staff with a screwdriver. Much the same as any public service role I imagine.

The questions that are asked at a new claims stage aren?t for fun ? they are questions that legally have to be answered in order to progress a claim to benefit. The same as when someone is asked to provide additional evidence, your claim simply can?t be progressed until it?s received. The reason why someone might be asked to clarify a childs identical date of birth is because there is a huge push on protection of public funds and some people do claim for non existent children. It?s not because ?we? think you?re stupid or that you?re dodgy, it?s because we have to be careful ? there was a story in the (cough!) daily mail (cough!) the other day about a woman who claimed for 18 non existent children.

I appreciate that there will be belligerent, poorly trained (training = costs money = minimal) overworked staff who are probably doing the job two people did ten years ago, and of course that is no excuse for behaving in an uncivil manner towards claimants, but to tar all people working in job centres as having a low IQ, or call them incompetent, useless etc. would be the same as me saying all people on benefits are work shy malingerers who pop out babies to claim benefits. I wouldn?t say that because I?ve stuck in the job because I have to work to support my three children single handed and I actually like trying to help people. I like helping people navigate the system and get what they are entitled to. If we?re ?overpaid? (?) then the majority of low grade ?low IQ? civil servants wouldn?t need to claim tax credits or shop in LIDL. Like me. I've had to water the milk the day before payday to make it go further, I eat my kids left- overs (presuming there are some!) or toast for tea, i know what it's like and i do sympathise because I've had to deal with tax credits cock ups and people who aren't very helpful there - but i'd never call them all a waste of space, because they're not.

Queue up then, have a go. I?ve seen it before on mumsnet - I should be a traffic warden and get an easier ride.

Well, hell, now I've heard it all! As if it weren't bad enough that a small segment of society don't work outside the home at all, people who work in public service or for the government are also complete wasters and skivers who are just as bad.

Some people just won't be happy until we bring back the workhouses, I guess.

[rolls eyes]

persephone, not having a go at All jobcentre employees, just the ones who seem to go out of their way to ask deliberatly crass, and daft questions. My dh and I have both come across some nice, understanding people while we have been in our current situation.

What i'm trying to say is that different people implement the system in different ways. We understand why the forms and questions are there, but it is the was the forms are worded, and the manner of the people who we deal with face to face. And sadly, it is the people at the face to face bit who get all the grief, but are poorly paid. being on the recieving end of a hostile attitude when already feeling miserable and vunerable, and so a bit fragile, can lead to us feeling more hostile the next time we visit and so it snowballs.

For me it is ultimatly the system, the idiots who come up with their bright ideas without feet on the ground, and the numptys who chose to open their mouths and ask stupid Q's who drive us nuts. We all understand that there are just as many decent well meaning people in these offices, same as we all understand not all people on benefits are * (insert what you want!)

Right, off my soap box, where did I put those bloody vouchers so I can stock up on milk JIC the bump is punctual? I'm ready for a bit of ritual humiliation at the hands of a checkout cashier....

readytopop - i know, i just get so frustrated that it's always the crappy service thats mentioned and the people that actually go out of their way seldom get praised. much the same as anywhere i guess.

really it's the government though, combined with the people who just shouldn't be in public service - if i said, 'i'm really sorry, i have to ask some personal questions - they are important so bear with me, we'll get through this as quick as i can and then we'll see about payment...' as oppossed to barking 'name! DOB!' at someone then it'd hopefully make the experience slightly more pleasant.

teh trouble is, i think - (especially) in London the wages aren't good enough to keep people around to become experienced, and benefit legislation and procedure is an ants nest. jobcentres are for finding jobs, bvenefits are secondary and the goverment tries to save money by centralising the processing in cheaper areas and unemployment blackspots - so things are 'handed off' to other areas. people need financial support to look for jobs, so staff that deal with benefits shoudl be sited alongside people who deal with jobsearch IMHO.

sorry, thsi is all a llittle boring and worky and i don't like talking about work when i'm not there (shudder!)

Gov is looking at privatising job search, they reckon that the savings would be so massive it's worth paying a private company to do it properly as it is currently so woefully lacking.

Don't get me started on centralised processing...!

like I said, it's the system, coupled with numpty's who choosse to ask stupid Q's (see post above) who get our backs up. I am always ready to praise people when it is due, and we have come across some fab people doing tricky jobs, who understand that we held back from claiming in the hope he'd get another job, and that it is just the time of year, and the lovely lady who didn't know if she'd have her job in the JC this time next month...

And the stupid cashier in tescos who struggled with the concept that 4 bottles of milk (£8), 1 net oranges(£2) 2 mangos (£1.30) and bunch of grapes would be covered by 4 vouchers, and so had to make a real issue of it at a busy checkout at the top of her foghorn voice....

I know where going off tangent but my emergency call to police went through to central centre to prioritise and then send someone once a criteria had been collected.. a local person could have popped over as we live in a tiny place, they defied process and came straight away, thank god. NHS direct is just as unworkable too..

"i'm going to kidnap xenia and force her to go in home bargainsgrin"
I did go into a lidl for the first time the other week. They didn't have what I went in for which was nuts and raisins and it definitely felt different from some other shops but I virtually never go in a shop. I may be in a supermarket once a month at most. I hate shopping. I order it on line.

My experience of public sector workers has not been good but obviously one cannot generalise about everyone. We certainly need to cut right back the state, state bodies, state provision in so many areas. We have barely started that process.

seeing as they now scan the milk tokens you would think they would be able to programme the tills to reject it if the necessary purchases hadnt been made,like they do with money off coupons etc.

to be fair to the JC staff who were standing around,i did ask one of them if she could help with my enquiry and she said she wasnt allowed,and then went on a short rant about the crapness of the new system

Well, I work in the public sector in a legal department, there are some really rubbish private sector law firms who rip off their clients. Some of those who take work for public and voluntary sector organisations really rip them off as well (at the expense of taxpayers and donors).

Of course too, private practice solicitors stand to benefit immensely from public money, taxpayers money, for advising on privatisation and selloffs.

And what will those of us who support our children with our public sector jobs do when you abolish the state? Go on the dole?

The red faces because I think that parents should provide for their children are a bit wearing.

Oy Xenia, my DH is a public sector worker. They are not (or not all ) lowlives

Cut back on physios, nurses, doctors, OT's, SALTS, social workers, respite carers etc etc? Are you nuts?

persephone - sending a form back with birth dates circled in red with the comment " same birthday" is not rigourous checking for the purposes of making sure i dont have 18 children.

I understand that things have legal requirements as i work in the social housing sector and indeed work in the public sector - but the benefits office is an anathema. If the systems in place for catching benefit cheats are counterproductive to supporting people for whom the saferty net is in place - then maybe the system needs looking at.
in my last post i said that you see the shit end of the stick most of the time and that must cloud your view. i know it does for my housing officer collegues who tend to take the view that most people in social housing are not really in need and are completely taking the piss.

terefore i dont see why staf attitude is the way it is. why qurestions are asked in the tone of voice they are.

instead of sending my whole form back - why not ring me up and ask. - then process the claim more quickly and efficiently?

compeltely miss my own point - which was - despite crappy systems - mannerisms and tone of voice from staff - come free.

NMC

Most forms of social policy create a division between the deserving and the undeserving poor. It's not a line that is well or carefully drawn out in the UK.

I am sorry you are going through this, and I am sorry for the horrible and demeaning administration you have to go through.

God bless

This country always goes back and forth between less and more "state". I suppose it always will do so my suggestion was not particularly radical. Labour has done its bit for privatisations. Indeed Kinnock stole the clothes of the tories to get in didn't he.. and they've gone for contracting out and hiring of consultants with great enthusiasm.

Xenia

When did Kinnock get in?

One of us is living in a parallel universe.

When I was unemployed years ago I made mistakes on every form I filled in, and I found the child benefit and child tax credit forms really hard.

I don't know about your local offices custardo but I think a lot of housing benefits and other welfare services are being cut back and outsourced or prepared for outsourcing in a way which shows little thought for the needs of claimants. They're being ground down by targets, crappy systems, bullying managers, the threat of losing their jobs. I always try to talk to tenants and other callers to where I work the way I would prefer to be spoken to in their shoes, but they hadn't yet turned us into call centre automatons when I went on maternity leave, unlike Housing Benefit and Council Tax. What I'll return to is anyone's guess.

Neil Kinnock wasn't PM he was leader of the opposition and was expected to get victory but suprisingly John MAjor was voted in instead to the best of my knowledge

I believe he was very hard left at the time in complete opposition sometime to left for his own party

and my spelling and typing are crap can I blame it on my cold !!!

sorry

Let me tell you about benefits..

I was made redundant whilst on maternity leave. I had worked full time for a shitty wage since leaving school. (started off as £60 a week at age 18, not that long ago, im 30 this year). Before that I worked full time on YTS £32 a week. So, needless to say, I hadn't anything saved.

Company went bump, redundancy pay had to be applied for. It took 3 months to process my benefit claim. I had to live on my credit card (luckily I had one). Sure, the IS was backdated but the credit card had been gaining interest of course.

9 months later I finally found a job. I had to start paying childcare straight away £70 odd a week I think. Nursery will not accept non payment of tax credits as a valid excuse. It took 3 months for my tax credits claim to be processed. During which time they lost application forms, deleted one or the other child etc. In the end the only reason I got my tax credits was because someone at head office took pity on me and said she would pay it if I sent her my calculation as IR had sent her nothing. Of course, I had been paying childcare on my credit card for his time.

Then (bitter laugh) I was made redundant again just as I was getting myself straight. I kept my DD in nursery one day a week to keep the place open (£24) which is a lot out of benefit. I did this for 10 months until I got another job.

This job was 16 hours yet occasionally overtime and holiday cover was required. If I did overtime one week and didnt declare it to housing benefit, when they did call for my pay slips, they started clawing back money. If I handed it in that very week they made almighty cock ups...would stop my housing benefit, or overpay me by hundreds. No-one would tell me how much rent I was supposed to be paying and I got into trouble with it, had letters threatening eviction every single month. Oops..im in debt again.

Its not a life of riley on benefit and bloody hard to get off it. If I hadn't had credit cards I would have been forced to give my job up both times because of cock ups, instead I got into debt in order to work. Giving up would have been easier tbh.

Every time you make a phonecall, you are spoken to like shit. Employees are unhelpful and havent the time. I know someone who works for local authority and I also know how understaffed they are, with impossible targets to meet...but one cock up on that computer can really impact on someone's life.

and all the time this is going on, you've got some folks looking down on you and thinking you're a waste of space, lazy...a sponger, when you're trying your very best to get yourself sorted out, and banging your head against a brick wall.

Doesn't sound like much fun. One reason I like my idea of paying everyone a universal benefit/wage regardless of status - a lot of people have written about that as a possible system. You get it as of right even if you earn what I do and whether you work or not. Removes all this claiming and silly forms, never mind all the wasted time.

(Oops I meant when labour at last wrested power from the Conservatives, not Kinnock....)

needmorecoffee did you get a job suggestion?

not yet but I reckon paperweight, or, given the fact she's tall and skinny, supermodel. Course, she might need hoisting down the catwalk.
Basketweaving is out of course, you need hand function for that.
But, given she's had a picture exhibited at a National gallery already, we're thinking Christy Brown, my left foot guy. Although her legs and feet don't actually move either.....