to not want people to judge those who recieve benefits????

[TidyTink]

Im a single mother of one,

i was working up until my DD (3) was born, rather than take a part time job that i knew i would always be stuck in i decided to get to college and study asubject that will lead me to a very hard working and well paid job so that i can fully support my DD in the future.

I hate recieving benefits and cannot wait untill i have finished my degree

Once i start at work i will be paying enough taxes in the future to more than cover the benefits ive recieved over the few yrs.

So why does everyone assume your a complete waste of space?? not all of us take advantage of the system!!!!

I can see where you are coming from. I'm still paying off my student loan from before kids but that won't change the fact that people will still have kids even when it's not the perfect time.

Because it will benefit us in the long run and I am sure as a grauate the tax she will pay will payback her benefits

If she works part time she will still be eligible for some kind of benefit.

quattro - i can see your point, kinda, but equally, i have to say - if everyone was using benefits the way the OP is - to use it as a means of support to better herself; improve her life - wouldn't it be great? The OP should be congratulated IMO to have the motivation to do what she is doing.

she will be in debt longer alternatively this way she can be a taz payer sooner.

in fact i think f there were going to be any right wingy type stipulations on benefits - the fact that you must stud for a higher level of education whilst claimng them - is a great one.

i think that this is a great thing - that someone who has had a child - can THEN go into education -to better the lives of their child andthemseves and to have a long term view making their situation a short term one

i think this is rather to be applauded than chastised.

i had 3 under 5 when i returned to college i then went t university and count myself v. fortunate tat becase i now have a degree i can aford my children a beter lifestyle, i can be a fully integrated tax paying member of society.

how can any reasonable person berate someone for waning to lift themseles out of a situation where they are claiming benefits - into a situation where they are not.

i thnk yo wilfind that wi th littl or no education that you are likley to have lo skilled menial work at miimum wage - this holds no hope and no interest and least of all does not enable one to study at the OU in "spare time" if ideed there was spare time..there wouldnt be a whole lot of spare money. Quite frankly i thik this kind of attitude is indicative of people who have never been in a place where they have a choice of 9p beans on toast or 9p tomatos on toast becuase they have to put the last £5 in the gas to keep warm.

I really can't believe that people have a problem with this. FGS What do you want - clones who do everything at the designated time?
People who are let down by the education system often go back and do a degree when they have gained the confidence to self- educate
This is an amazing acconmplishment

Precisely custardo.

bravo custardo

I also have the greatest of respect for someone who has found themselves in a situation as such and instead of sitting there thinking thats how life now is, is doing something positive and thinking to the future (and believe me, when you're on benefit you often dont see a better future).

Maybe more benefit claimants (I hate that phrase but cant think of a better one) wouldn't give up so easily if they actually had some support with what they're trying to accomplish by studying, instead of being kicked down at every turn.

can i just point out that whilst doing a degree as a parent you are entitled to less benfits than as a parent just sitting on benefits for whatever reason.
so you still have student loans etc, the same as any student starting before they have children, to take out in order to gain an education to lift you and your children off the poverty line and out of a vicious circle whereby as adults your children are more likely to be on benefits if you sit on them for life.
therfore although not ideal surely 3 years in uni on a reduced benefit rate, equates to less tax payers money than being on benefits for the rest of 1 persons life and the high chance of the children also then spending a life on benefits. in the longer term picture equates to less tax payers money?

FYI quattro i dont get my education bloody paid for!!!!!

i also dont get childcare paid for, it comes out of a fund that was set up for me when my DG past away,

and why the f* would i wanna look back on my life n think ooh im so glad that i came off benefits to go do a shitty job, look at my lovely life!!!!

NO id rather look back n think god im glad i got my education, gave me n DD a good life.

BTW by DG i mean gran

Tidy, I think the majority agree with you.

scruffyteddy

MsSparkle says 'I also think there is a very tiny percentage of people who truely cannot work. Even if you can't do some jobs there is always something a person can do as work no matter what their abilty.'

OK, dd has full body cerebral palsy and is visually impaired. She has no function in any limb and can't sit up. Its possible she has cognitve impairments too.
What jobs do you recommend? Paperweight?
What you may not know is that an adult who needs full time care, and there are many severely physically disabled people who are intelligent but need full time personal asistants - once they get a job, any job, they are allowed to keep only 20 pounds a week. Everything else is taken for their care. The 20 quid is meant to cover food/heating/clothes/going out etc etc etc
Why would an intelligent person work for 20 quid a week?
And this is if they can get past the bigots in the employment agency who think if you can't speak or move then you are worthless.
But I'm waiting for the job suggestions for dd....

ah,quattro is clearly just bitter and twisted because she wants another child and cant 'afford' one

it is possible to get pregnant becuase of contraception failure,but i suppose people who cant 'afford' children should just not have sex atall,eh?

oh yes,'my mum is a gp. the other day she saw a patient who's been receiving incapacity benefit for some months owing to respiratory problems. mum suggested referring him to a consultant to see what could be done to improve his condition. his response was "oh don't make it better, they'll stop my benefits." i am not suggesting such an attitude is typical of all benefit claimants but it demonstrates a mentality which does exist and which needs to be stamped out. '

firstly,what on earth happened to patient confidentiality?

and secondly,i can understand this to an extent,especially if its somebody who has a family to support.if you are on IB and have no job to return to then you have to go on JSA when you are well again,which often means a reduction in the amount of money you get and then theres the time you have to spend living on next to nothing while you wait for your claim to go through.

i was wondering,also,when somebody was going to mention depression.so many people seem to think that IB/DLA etc should only be given to those who are physically ill/disabled.as though mental illness doesnt stop you from working

Problem is representation - look at the Jeremy Kyle show and other related 'chat' shows. As a former lone parent it really gets me going when people don't use the opportunities available and then moan about not having 'lovely foreign holidays' while on benefit (just an example I saw). Like you I never wanted to stay on benefits for any longer than necessary but too much publicity is given to a hardcore of individuals who are unreasonably long term claimants (see below).

BTW don't have a problem with supporting people ie benefits, when they're needed and think that disability allowances should be increased and careers looked after much better (B4 right wing stromping causes backlash)

One girl I was at school with hasn't worked since she was 18 . Has 3 children and has claimed benefits for nearly 14 years. Non of the dads contribute openly. All children are school age and she's done reasonable jobs in the (distant) past - meanwhile others get back to work and get on with lives. This is (I think) the face of benefit use that a lot of people find unpalatable and then judge everyone who has ever claimed a thing.

In the Netherlands a friend couldn't perform her chosen job as her XH had violently attacked and permanently injured her. As soon as DC were school age she was required to retrain into a job she could perform or lose a lot of her benefits. She saw this as fair, even tho she was devastated she couldn't be a nursery nurse anymore.

Good Luck with college thing - I have the greatest respect for anyone managing dc on own and managing to study!!

Unlike the OP the taxpayer IS funding ds3's childcare while I study (although the majority of the rest is a loan). Do I feel bad about this? nah. Would I be working if I were not at Uni? Nope. I'd be stuck at home on carers allowance staring at the walls and graduially losing my mind. This way, when my situation changes (or rather when DH goes to Uni, but as he owns a small busness he will be self funding) in a year I can get a place on a PGCE course and do something that matters. Had I worked the past few years they'd have sacked, I need that much time off for Paediatrics appointments (2 disabled kids), speech therapy, school meetings etc.

Long term I shall be a much smaller drain on the economy this way.

Oh and I did work before ds3- long hours for a charity, on a decent wage. And had worked for many, many years. Until ds1's behaviour became so bad I couldn't return, in fact.

"i think that this is a great thing - that someone who has had a child - can THEN go into education -to better the lives of their child andthemseves and to have a long term view making their situation a short term one"

What you don't understand is that I agree entirely with the point of view of coming off benefits, and retraining and improving life skills. Of course I agree with that, what reasonable person wouldn't?

Of course people should be encouraged out of benefits, but without illness or incapacity, and with relatively little unemployment, there should be no need to go on benefits at all.

It's interesting that the Government are proposing the most stringent attitude for long term (ie greater than twelve months) unemployed, proposing community work for those who are able to work yet on benefits for that period of time.

That seems to me to be a reasonable approach.

That

Oh and Tidy of course you get your education paid for - you are claiming benefits while in education - most students get into debt through having to live.

Tuition fees are only a tiny part of it, although admittedly growing larger now.

I agree with many points made here, and also disagree with many as well.

In many cases, including my own, it was expected that I would go to uni after 6th form. I made the decision not to, partly because I didn't want to be taking on a massive burden of debt with no idea of when I would be able to pay it off. Instead I began working full time and then some in tesco, learning, as I have always put it, life skills that aren't taught at uni. 5yrs later, I met my dh, (who is a bit older than me, but has always worked since leaving school unofficially at 15).

I began my OU degree almost 2yrs ago now, because otherwise, once my dcs are all at school f/t time I will still be fit for nothing more than a checkout at tescos (no offence meant to anyone who does that, personally, anyone who does deserves a big wage rise, cos imo it's a shitty job & you're treated poorly by both managers, some customers, and some groups of the general population. Done it, got the nasty checked shirt, always swore I'd never go back)

So no, I don't feel bad that I am not paying for my degree, or that since mid Jan we have been on benefits through no fault of our own. hopefully he will hear he has the job that he is pretty sure he had in the bag, and we will be standing on our own 2 feet.
I have no problem with 'deserving' people who are on benefits again because of what life has thrown at them, not all of us have everything go to plan, or earn the wage to be able to have enough of a nest egg to provide a cushion for when life goes pear-shaped. But like (i think it was) everyone on here, the people who are on benefits, and are quite happy to maintain a life on benefits make me see . It is this group of claiments who tar all claiments with a bad rep, and mean we are all left feeling ashamed, and judged.

I also agree with the person who said a household should have paid into the pot for a certain length of time before being entitled, especially if one or both have come from abroard, although I know this view will prob stir up more controversy.

"I also agree with the person who said a household should have paid into the pot for a certain length of time before being entitled, especially if one or both have come from abroard, although I know this view will prob stir up more controversy."

I have far far more sympathy for those who are political refugees, coming from warzones or famine or civil unrest than I do for the feckless.

Immigrants by and large are net contributors. They work hard to get back on their feet. Generally.

Generally they do, agreed, and I have sympathy with those whose plight is genuine, and do get back on their feet, and integrate.

Unfortunatly in my previous life bc I came across many immigrants who had been brought over to marry, and ended up with large families, both partners on ending up on IS, and the partner who had been brought into the country still unable to speak english, and so isolated, and stuck in that position. While I know it isn't the individuals fault, surely the british born partner would have considered these aspects, to my mind it is just as feckless.

And don't get me started on CIH...

sorry, not making total sense, I know what I am trying to say, just bit weird on painkillers following emergency dentist visit

What most people don't see is the other side of benefits. The side that is NOT the foreign holidays, the five bedroomed house because we have a big family, the cars and the shopping for 10 people per week... etc

What people don't see is the cases like mine.

I have been on benefits since 2002. In 2002 I fled domestic violence. I had a 6 month old baby and not enough A Levels to go to university. I went to night school. I got another A level and went to university the following year (that was 2004). I graduated last year but didn't get on my post grad course and still had a child not yet school age.

DS is now school age and I've been accepted on to the PGCE (teacher training) course - this starts in September. Until then I am reliant on benefits as I wouldn't be able to afford to live otherwise and be around for DS as much as is needed; I am a single parent.

HOWEVER, in the past 6 years I have had 5 eviction notices. I have had letter upon letter upon letter demanding why I'm getting benefits whilst at university, that I owe £9k Council Tax (students are totally exempt - I do NOT owe that money). I have letters from the council demanding that unless I pay my £10 water rates debt I will be taken to court and evicted because I'm in rent arrears (for £10!!! - that £10 is the difference between enough food or not this week - they can wait for rent!)

My most recent letter, dated 18 Feb 2008 is asking for a form to be sent so that my "Council Tax discount" can be calculated. I sent them this form in JULY 2007 - they have lost it and are blaming me.

This is the side of benefits that people don't see - the CONSTANT threat of losing my home, the CONSTANT stress of what else they may cock up and NOT take the blame for and the depression that ensues from not knowing if they will actually pay me my £104 for next week or not; sometimes they don't. They stop paying for no real reason leaving me with NO money for food and a day at home on the phone, trying to speak to someone that knows WHY they have stopped my money. Last time, that "day" of phone calls took a week - I had no money for a month.... a WHOLE month.

Now tell me benefits is the life of riley... please; I am failing to see how it is.