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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think if EU citizens can vote in local elections if they live here and if Commonwealth Citizens can vote in General Elections,

346 replies

cakeorwine · 14/05/2023 09:34

then what's the issue with EU citizens who live here, pay taxes here etc voting in General Elections?

I don't here people complaining about EU citizens voting in local elections.

But the proposal for EU citizens to vote in general elections seems to have upset the Tories. For some reason.

Who can vote in UK elections? - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)

Keir Starmer to hand vote to millions of EU nationals if Labour wins next election | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

Under the plans, migrants who live permanently and pay taxes in the UK would be able to vote in general elections for the first time.
The move is expected to enfranchise around 3.4 million EU nationals who have "settled status" in Britain
Meanwhile, 1.4 million 16 and 17-year-olds would also be able to go to the ballot box in line with Scotland and Wales.

Keir Starmer to hand vote to EU nationals if Labour wins next election

The Labour leader has been accused of "laying the groundwork for a referendum to rejoin the EU" and looking to "reopen" Brexit.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1769993/keir-starmer-labour-general-election-eu

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Schroedingersimmigrant · 19/05/2023 09:52

Jonei · 18/05/2023 08:45

Well clearly you're not commited to the UK if you got citizenship and then left. That doesn't sound right either.

So what's the answer.

We have people people who don't want to commit to the country through citizenship. We have people who buy the citizenship then leave.

Maybe people need to give up their original citizenship completely of they want the rights that go with citizenship in a new country. Or maybe the flaw in the system should be removed to prevent people to continue to have citizenship rights when they bought the citizenship and then leave the country not long after.

I have massive issue with the use of commitment in your posts.
The only vommitment most peoppe here did was... Nothing. Parents had unprotected sex.

Meanwile group which is statistically more likely to be net contributors to treasury, work and generally contribute to society well are not "commited" unless they pay another dosh do test even most Brits would fail and then have a pretty ceremony 🤷🏻
All that for passport that is weaker than theirs most likely

CharlottenBerg · 19/05/2023 10:15

Vommitment? Bleurgh! Love it! 😀

WonkyFeelings · 19/05/2023 10:52

Schroedingersimmigrant · 19/05/2023 09:52

I have massive issue with the use of commitment in your posts.
The only vommitment most peoppe here did was... Nothing. Parents had unprotected sex.

Meanwile group which is statistically more likely to be net contributors to treasury, work and generally contribute to society well are not "commited" unless they pay another dosh do test even most Brits would fail and then have a pretty ceremony 🤷🏻
All that for passport that is weaker than theirs most likely

Show quote history

Yes. There’s a clear undertone of “worthiness” going on.

Schroedingersimmigrant · 19/05/2023 10:55

CharlottenBerg · 19/05/2023 10:15

Vommitment? Bleurgh! Love it! 😀

🙈🙈🙈🙈

WalkingOnTheCracks · 19/05/2023 15:54

SunnyEgg · 18/05/2023 07:50

I know people from Russia who have settled here, have made the UK their home and contribute to society.

Why shouldn't they have a vote?

Does Russia offer the same?

We should do it because it's fair.

If other countries are unfair, that's their problem. It's not a reason to be unfair too.

LadyMary50 · 19/05/2023 16:27

I don’t agree with 16 and 17yr olds voting,especially now when an awful lot them don’t know basic biology and think they can change sex on a daily basis.Of course Kier Starmer wants them to vote,he knows he’s lost a lot of womens votes and knows the he has a captive audience with the young demographic…

CharlottenBerg · 19/05/2023 17:06

LadyMary50 · 19/05/2023 16:27

I don’t agree with 16 and 17yr olds voting,especially now when an awful lot them don’t know basic biology and think they can change sex on a daily basis.Of course Kier Starmer wants them to vote,he knows he’s lost a lot of womens votes and knows the he has a captive audience with the young demographic…

Rolls eyes. My dad would have said the same, only with him it was long hair, smoking marijuana, and what he called 'promiscuity'. Plus ça change...

IcedPurple · 19/05/2023 17:19

"Who gets a vote should be done on fairness, not who they may vote for and as far as i can see, a EU citizen who came here under FOM should have a vote, as they do in local elections."

I don't understand your concept of 'fairness'. EU citizens cannot vote in EU states of which they are not citizens, yet they should be allowed to vote in a state which is no longer part of the EU?

pointythings · 19/05/2023 17:26

LadyMary50 · 19/05/2023 16:27

I don’t agree with 16 and 17yr olds voting,especially now when an awful lot them don’t know basic biology and think they can change sex on a daily basis.Of course Kier Starmer wants them to vote,he knows he’s lost a lot of womens votes and knows the he has a captive audience with the young demographic…

If you think gender ideology is the biggest thing wrong in the UK you really haven't been paying attention.

Jonei · 19/05/2023 17:37

If you think gender ideology is the biggest thing wrong in the UK you reallyhaven't been paying attention.

It's not the only thing that's wrong certainly. But gender ideology is certainly one of the biggest things that is very wrong. After all, it has a hugely detrimental impact on half the population, and our children's education, which in itself, has had far reaching effects on child safeguarding. What sort of person wouldn't care about that eh...

Maybe you haven't been paying attention. Or maybe you have. And you agree with it. Which is very grim if so.

pointythings · 19/05/2023 19:07

But gender ideology is certainly one of the biggest things that is very wrong.

Nonsense. The biggest problems we have are our health service, the state of our education system, the environment and climate change and our self-inflicted damage to the economy.

Then after that there is the utter lack of accountability in our government (and let's not forget all the self ID stuff happened under this government), the corruption of said government and the disregard for international law under this government.

On gender ideology I'm in the middle - both extremes should stop screaming and start listening.

Jonei · 19/05/2023 19:45

There's only one extreme that's screaming, and on the whole, it's not women. But if you knew anything about it, then you would know that. And when the rights of over half the population are being eroded, well that's pretty important. Don't you think? Or don't you care about safeguards for women and children?

I don't particularly care what government it happened under. What's the point of even saying that? It's not some kind of gotcha. We know it happened under this government. What's important is that it happened. And what happens next. I don't see any of the opposition parties stepping forward to say they're going to roll it back, even now. Why not?

pointythings · 19/05/2023 19:50

I have no time for TRAs. But I also have no time for the kind of GC feminists who present anyone who has gender issues as mentally ill or somehow deficient.

We need safe single sex spaces for men and women. We need safe third spaces. We need to think about and invest in public architecture. We need planning, investment, better legislation and dialogue, not endless ranting.

And given the numbers no, the problem is not as big as all the others the UK is facing right now.

Jonei · 19/05/2023 21:20

I have little time for people who downplay the problem. And, it is a massive problem in the UK, even if you choose to try and downplay that.

pointythings · 19/05/2023 21:29

@Jonei massive? Got some data on that?

pointythings · 19/05/2023 21:33

Besides, we have drifted far from the topic.

Basically if the choice is between 16 and 17 year olds having the franchise and sticking with what we have, I'm here for the young 'uns. They aren't the ones who voted for this Brexit/Tory shitshow.

Jonei · 19/05/2023 23:29

pointythings · 19/05/2023 21:29

@Jonei massive? Got some data on that?

Yeah. Take your arse over to the feminist forum and have a plough through that, to start you off...

Jonei · 19/05/2023 23:32

pointythings · 19/05/2023 21:33

Besides, we have drifted far from the topic.

Basically if the choice is between 16 and 17 year olds having the franchise and sticking with what we have, I'm here for the young 'uns. They aren't the ones who voted for this Brexit/Tory shitshow.

You think that's what the choice is? Stick with the Tories or hand the vote over to children?

Okay 🤨

Howpo · 20/05/2023 07:00

I don't particularly care what government it happened under. What's the point of even saying that? It's not some kind of gotcha. We know it happened under this government. What's important is that it happened. And what happens next. I don't see any of the opposition parties stepping forward to say they're going to roll it back, even now. Why not?

Why aren't the Tories then? you'd think it would be an open goal for them.

Have we plans to slash the number of Gender clinics? GRC's issued? single sex wards? choice of female staff? more DV's and better funding to reduce the 3 women a week killed in a domestic setting or more help for the mainly women dealing with the affects of raising children in poverty, then we have the increasing number of sect 21 evictions caused by their ill thought out housing policies (if they have one)

There is every point in attributing blame, how on earth can things be put right without accountability?

Jonei · 20/05/2023 07:12

There is every point in attributing blame, how on earth can things be put right without accountability?

Yes we already know what happened under the Tories. Sure. Blame attributed.

Now what happens next? Whose going to put it right?

BitOutOfPractice · 20/05/2023 07:18

I’ve got an idea. Why don’t we have a European Parliament we can all vote for? It’s an idea that might catch on?

Howpo · 20/05/2023 07:23

Jonei · 20/05/2023 07:12

There is every point in attributing blame, how on earth can things be put right without accountability?

Yes we already know what happened under the Tories. Sure. Blame attributed.

Now what happens next? Whose going to put it right?

So if you had a builder in who wrecked your house, didn't seem to know what he was doing, kept changing trades people and kept charging you every higher prices etc and then said "Sorry" would you then employ him again to put it all right & trust him to pay you back?

Maybe you would, i wouldn't.

Its not a perfect analogy, i am probably a natural fit Tory but after 13 years, i see that on any measure, they have wrecked the country.

You 'd disagree but if you can name one thing, just one area of public service that has improved, i'd like to know.

On the key measures, Health housing education and transport what have they improved? and on top of that, they ve been asleep at the wheel whilst the TWAW movement has slipped into our lives.

Schroedingersimmigrant · 20/05/2023 07:40

BitOutOfPractice · 20/05/2023 07:18

I’ve got an idea. Why don’t we have a European Parliament we can all vote for? It’s an idea that might catch on?

😁

SunnyEgg · 20/05/2023 08:14

Howpo · 20/05/2023 07:23

So if you had a builder in who wrecked your house, didn't seem to know what he was doing, kept changing trades people and kept charging you every higher prices etc and then said "Sorry" would you then employ him again to put it all right & trust him to pay you back?

Maybe you would, i wouldn't.

Its not a perfect analogy, i am probably a natural fit Tory but after 13 years, i see that on any measure, they have wrecked the country.

You 'd disagree but if you can name one thing, just one area of public service that has improved, i'd like to know.

On the key measures, Health housing education and transport what have they improved? and on top of that, they ve been asleep at the wheel whilst the TWAW movement has slipped into our lives.

Show quote history

On the key measures, Health housing education and transport what have they improved? and on top of that, they ve been asleep at the wheel whilst the TWAW movement has slipped into our lives.

Looking at this for post I’d say Wales have handed the keys to the builder to stay, no matter how bad you are. And going by Drakeford turn off your mic if you have a question, insult you and slam the door

Not looking enviable

Howpo · 20/05/2023 08:20

This old Chestnut, do you realise Wales isn't an independent country? funding is mainly controlled by Westminster and they have no border control, maybe you don't as you ve dragged this one up many times before.

Like i asked, if you can come up with any area of public service that has improved over the last 13 years, i'd be keen to hear.