to think if EU citizens can vote in local elections if they live here and if Commonwealth Citizens can vote in General Elections,

[cakeorwine]

then what's the issue with EU citizens who live here, pay taxes here etc voting in General Elections?

I don't here people complaining about EU citizens voting in local elections.

But the proposal for EU citizens to vote in general elections seems to have upset the Tories. For some reason.

Who can vote in UK elections? - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)

Keir Starmer to hand vote to millions of EU nationals if Labour wins next election | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

Under the plans, migrants who live permanently and pay taxes in the UK would be able to vote in general elections for the first time.
The move is expected to enfranchise around 3.4 million EU nationals who have "settled status" in Britain
Meanwhile, 1.4 million 16 and 17-year-olds would also be able to go to the ballot box in line with Scotland and Wales.

Isn't that scary they felt the need to do that?
I did not know that btw so I learned something new.

@Enko

IMO the phrase "why don't they just apply for citizenship" usually indicates that the individual using it has never had to really seriously consider/research/contemplate doing the same...

As you say and others rightly point out, gaining citizenship, regardless of the nations involved, is usually a complex process and not a "given".

Just a note for anyone with EUSS aka "we have thousands of data breaches includingg deletions a year, but we want you to trust us so your status is only online on system"...
I have already encountered people with issues such as, incoreect status showing, status not showing at all and claiming again "application under consideration" and just issues with codes not working when trying to prove status.

I don't think it is so expensive for something so important tbh. And it's clearly reachable by saving.

It's not a given, no. Why should it be?

Only thing immigrants have to do is to stop eating all them avocados on toast and et voilà.
Easy peasy

I didn't say or imply it should be..

OTOH it's also rarely if ever a simply a case "just taking citizenship".

So your opinion means everyone has to feel this way?

I'm as I've already stated saving to apply for this. I'm thankfully not going to need to save for 4 years. However for me it's still expensive. Something I will fi d the money for yes. However, judging you wanting to do something and feel you will get the money together for it. Doesn't = its not expensive.

Sometimes in life we chose to do expensive things.

Shamefully puts down her avocado toast 😂

Haven’t RTFT but I’m a naturalized American citizen so here’s my perspective as an immigrant.

Similar to the UK, I couldn’t vote as a taxpaying legal resident and eventually applied for citizenship after several years. The application process is similar to the UK’s, extensive background checks, declaration of even minor traffic offenses, etc., and it took ages. Essentially, applicants need to be far better behaved than citizens born there!

Once you become a citizen, you commit to serving in the military if required, and doing jury service ( which does happen regularly where I live).

Tbh, I was OK with waiting to become a citizen before I could vote. Voting is a huge democratic right-I think we tend to underestimate it and so many people don’t bother to exercise it. Now that I’ve fully committed to the country by agreeing to serve as a juror, in the military if necessary, I’ve been granted it, IYSWIM.

Before anyone accuses me of being anti-immigrant, remember that I AM an immigrant and this is just my personal opinion about myself. 🤷

Obviously Labour supporters are going to back anything that works in their party’s favour but this is a good post. I don’t know if it ls the same here regarding military and jury service.

I’d say that the proportion of people having a clue is about the same at 16 as 26.

However, if you’re going to raise it to 25, I’d want it also lowered to 70. Most of the old people I know - and I’m old - vote on the principle of ‘what’s best for me right now, and if there are long term consequences I won’t be around to worry about it.’

So your opinion means everyone has to feel this way?

Of course not. You have one opinion. I have another. It's perfectly acceptable to have different opinions.

Hope you manage to get your citizenship sorted soon.

Regarding what’s the difference between this and voter ID political commentator agrees with @Jonei this is a much bigger change to the franchise

A major change v the much smaller voter ID impact

Presumably thats £60 per month for a couple? not sure on the costs for children, is it automatic? thats on top of the health insurances they need too (if post brexit)
If only being able to pay rent/food/energy costs were so sooooo easily met.

I don’t know if it ls the same here regarding military and jury service.
I was called to jury service recently (Scotland). I have settled status and am on the Scottish electoral roll. I thought they made a mistake, but no, you don't have to be a citizen for jury service, at least in Scotland, you don't have to be.

Well, just because thats the case now, doesn't mean to say it has to stay that way forever does it? i.e. property rights, seems incredible a 16 year old can leave home and pay rent but cannot own a property.

As for favouring Labour, what would def favour Labour would be to make voting compulsory, so many younger age groups don't even bother voting in the first place.

My rational for extending voting to at least 17yo's is that they already have to take on huge responsibility at that age, yet have zero say.

For example, would Blair have introduced tuition fees if 16/17 yo's had a vote? & would the Tories have increased them to £9250 and now extended repayment terms and increasing interest?
Another, would we have more investment in state education if 16/17yo's could vote?

It favours Labour because if they do vote it’s more likely to be for them.

It’s why the SNP are for it too. The left pick up more votes from the younger voting age.

If you vote Labour, which I’m guessing many on the thread who are for it do, then it’s an easy way to increase support.

No you don't have to be citizen. You have to do 99% things citizens do (bar serving in army) yet no votes. That is bit ridiculous when one thinks about it. In all the countries which have it like this.

Are there countries were non-citizens can vote in general elections?

I think the conclusion was no to this

I don't know how people afford to pay internet to access mumsnet constantly if they cant find £60 a month. Do they go to the library or connect public wifi each time ? Children under 18yo cant vote in England at the moment anyway, so they can wait until they reach 18 to apply for citizenship. If I was in your situation, I would encourage my children to work part-time in their spare time and save money when they reached 16yo. I am from East Asia, I started working part-time at the age of 16. I came to England to study English by myself for 2 weeks. I paid for host family, the return flight ticket, school fee, transportations, travel insurance, meals, etc. I didn't ask my parents to help me with this even a penny.

I think those with settled status absolutely should be able to vote, not convinced by allowing children to though.

Children are £1000 each. The payment plan you can get is for 1 year of £80 a month.

Yes the UK
be either a British, qualifying Commonwealth citizen or a citizen of the Republic of Ireland;