To think a secondary school choir rejecting an 11 year old based on their voice is horrible?

[tigerdrew]

Just had DD come in upset. It's quite random as it's the middle of the night and a weekend and we had a nice day today, told me she is still sad about how she is a bad singer and she doesn't want to see her music teacher as she is too embarrassed etc etc

DD tried out for the school choir which is done by audition so obviously she was aware there was some kind of judging involved and so was I but I do think rejecting a year 7 into something they are interested in trying is harsh, especially when it's hard enough for year 7s.

AIBU to think a school choir should just be for whoever is interested? When kids are all singing in a group they do sound the same anyway! Obviously maybe solos could be kept for the particularly talented but I'm honestly just a bit sad and even annoyed.

This is correct.

One can learn to sing, I learnt to sing through lessons. I'm never going to be brilliant, but I'm better than I was!

Someone also taught me to talk, drive, ride, cook, draw, write and make a martini!

These are all skills, they're not innate, one can have a natural acuity but just because I can shake my booty, it doesn't mean I can dance like a prima ballerina, just because I can draw a passable likeness of a human I'm not going to be accepted to art school.

It's ok to be ok at things, and it's also a good lesson in resilience to realise that you're not going to be great at everything and you can't always just join in because 'you want to'.

It's also OK to take singing lessons and become good enough to join a choir. I did, because I really like singing and I knew I needed to sharpen up my voice a bit in order to do so.

No but it's a good lesson for them to know that we all have our strengths and talents and some people are better at some things than others. They have their things they are best at. I don't think it's good for kids to be told they are amazing at everything, when they're not.

Also, that sometimes they have to try more than once to get what they want. A friend's daughter applied to medical school four times before being accepted on the fifth time. She learned from the rejection that she had things to work on to be more competitive next time.

It doesn't sound like this is an all comers choir so she must have known she might not have got in?

It's rubbish for your DD but this is a life lesson. We need to prepare our kids for disappointment and rejection. Resilience in the face of disappointment is a key life skill.

Anyone? My husband is completely tone deaf. Can tone deaf people be taught to sing if they just don't have that instinct for pitch? Doesn't matter though, he's got his own strengths.

Me too, and my daughter.
but we can accept it with good grace, we have other talents.

And this is exactly why kids aren’t learning resilience. This is one of many times your daughter will be told they’re bad at something. Help her to come to terms with it but don’t tell her the school were wrong or unkind because that’s simply not true.

You do for school football/netball teams. And girls school plays. When she goes for a job, she might well get rejected, not even get an interview. School helps you build resilience fir things like this. There will be something else at school that will be a good fit for her, maybe try drama if she likes performing

I honestly think that this post is exactly what is wrong with parenting today. Overprotective parents who think their child should be picked regardless of how rubbish they are because they don't want their children's feelings hurt

Totally agree

Precisely!
Why on earth would a choir include those who cannot sing?
It’s no wonder that many young people feel that they’re entitled to do whatever they like if they never get told no.

Yabu.
I tried out and didnt get in. It hurt my feelings and in the end joined an everyone can join choir and learned to sing less loudly. I quit by year 9.

I think try and position it as a life lesson for her. Not everything will go your way. Its an opportunity to teach resilience

Also my DH positively loves my dodgy singing and he is an amazing and talented musician - go figure?!

I would have taken a hint from 'audition' and 'choir'. If you want singing lessons, find one and pay for it.

What do you suggest I do when my 11 year old comes and tells me they really want to be in the choir and has an audition the next days lunch break. Say oh absolutely don't bother, you're shit at singing

Exactly that.

If it bother you or her so much then do something about it but don’t lie to your child. It will save a lot of heartache

Your daughter is not a young kid, she is 11, which is the correct age to learn she should channel her energies into (finding) things she is good at and let the other things go.

Your job as her mother is to gently guide her in that direction, as it is how the real world works. The worst thing you can do for your daughter is agree with the 'injustice' of not being allowed to join a choir when you can't sing. This is a vital time in a child's life for parents to step up and support in the correct way.

I agree with you. I’ve listened to school choirs where pupils were chosen and then whole schools singing and can’t say there’s much difference.

I remember at my school you had to stand up and sing along in front of everyone in your year for the audition. I was so nervous at that that my voice went so dry and quiet. I’m not the best singer but it wasn’t representative of how I normally sing. I later found out some people got to sing in front of the music teacher alone but didn’t know that was an option. Hardly fair.

That’s what 121 paid lessons are for. The poor teacher doesn’t have time to teach an individual child to sing.

I do think singing in tune is something that cannot be taught.

there are lots of choirs for “everyone” but the better choirs usually do a quick audition. It’s tough. Life is tough. Rejection is part of life.

I am musical and got into choirs and played in bands. I was dumped from the school hockey team even though I loved it. I wasn’t fit enough or - sob - good enough.

Sign her up for singing lessons. I was in the secondary school choir. Most can sight sing (I can’t but learn from the piano which I can play). I also had singing lessons at school. DC secondary school has county music service lessons and singing is available. She can get better.

I'm in agreement with those saying that being rejected teaches resilience. I know you feel sad and protective of her, but really this is why so many young people do badly in life, they can't cope with being told 'no'. I can't sing,or dance( well I can shuffle around, but I'm no ballerina!), others of my acquaintance do both beautifully, that’s life. Being told no, makes us stronger, we try harder, or we find something we do well. Your DD needs to find something she can do well .

I was rejected aged 8 for the school choir, told I couldn't sng a note. Never affected me in the slightest, in fact I find it quite funny.

You say good luck, and then if she doesn't get in you empathise with her and help her move on.

I think it’s a tricky one. School choirs don’t have a huge amount of time for individual coaching. It could have been done more diplomatically, but equally she chose to try out knowing the system. What I do disagree with is what happened at my school, where auditions were compulsory and in front of your class. I got it, but the terror and embarrassment was horrific. We were allowed to turn our back to the class if we were nervous, but that was all. I don’t think compulsory auditions should be allowed in front of classmates.

I think most clubs naturally end up going with those with ability without having it done as an audition as children who aren’t good at team sport don’t usually attempt tryouts for netball club. I certainly wouldn’t have! I think individual singing lessons could be great for your dd and when she builds her skill she can take that forward and join a singing group.

I am sorry your dd was upset though, that’s hard for her, bless her.

That’s what happens in primary school - your daughter is in high school now.
my daughters primary tested them for the local church choir and she was devastated at age 7/8 when they tested her she did not get in. To be fair she did stage school at the time so was having group lessons. She practiced and got in the next year. Your daughter can impress be her singing if she wants to.

YABU. It's a choir!

My DGC sings in her school choir and unbeknownst to her, she is completely tone deaf but sings loudly with great enthusiasm and gusto. Her mother is also tone deaf and at a recent concert was very proud that you could hear her above all the others. 😳It was truly awful. DIL thinks she might have a musical future ahead of her and my dilemma is whether to gently inform them or not. I'm thinking not - just let her discover for herself that she's not going to be the next Maria Callas 😂 I feel for the others in the choir though so I can understand that your DD's school rejected her. It might save even more hurt feelings down the line. Unfortunately, it's life, innit?

How about learning to parent your child? How about that? The problem is these days parents spoil their children and don't want kids to ever learn the realities of life, to ever learn disappointment. They don't want to prepare their child for life, just coddle them and give them whatever they want. You need to start being a parent, and not a friend. You are letting your child down. You tell her she can't sing so can't be in the choir, she needs to accept that's life, and grow up. Why are you unable to parent your child? You are letting them down massively by not preparing them for the realities of life. That you can't do whatever you want, and you cannot get whatever you want. Start being a parent, be firm with her and tell her to shut up about it, she can't join and that's all there is to it.