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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think a secondary school choir rejecting an 11 year old based on their voice is horrible?

612 replies

tigerdrew · 14/05/2023 01:14

Just had DD come in upset. It's quite random as it's the middle of the night and a weekend and we had a nice day today, told me she is still sad about how she is a bad singer and she doesn't want to see her music teacher as she is too embarrassed etc etc

DD tried out for the school choir which is done by audition so obviously she was aware there was some kind of judging involved and so was I but I do think rejecting a year 7 into something they are interested in trying is harsh, especially when it's hard enough for year 7s.

AIBU to think a school choir should just be for whoever is interested? When kids are all singing in a group they do sound the same anyway! Obviously maybe solos could be kept for the particularly talented but I'm honestly just a bit sad and even annoyed.

OP posts:
CelerEtAudax · 14/05/2023 01:46

My music master at age 11 threw me out of the school choir with the words "Celer you couldn't carry a tune in a bucket" which I was young enough to think was an original remark. It's tough but if they have auditions (our school didn't) then a certain standard is req'd.

ClairDeLaLune · 14/05/2023 01:58

Oh dear OP. You’re being far too precious here. Would you expect DD to be on the athletics team if she couldn’t run or the swimming team if she couldn’t swim? If she can’t sing she shouldn’t be in the choir. It’s a life lesson. Some things you’re good at, some you aren’t. Much better for people to be honest with her about her abilities than to lie. I think you’re a teensy bit over-protective I’m afraid.

Mars27 · 14/05/2023 02:02

YABU. DS school (boy's only Catholic school) has a famous choir, they travel all over to perform and one of the boys recently became famous because he auditioned for a tv show. They would never ever accept a boy if he wasn't talented. The notion that "they all sound the same" is exactly because they all can sing well to start.

If you tell a child they can do anything and everything and blame rejections they may suffer on other people, it's just not going to end up well for them, a sure recipe for disaster. Like a PP said, you can't be good at everything

Liorae · 14/05/2023 02:06

You That Mum, aren't you.

Kennykenkencat · 14/05/2023 02:08

tigerdrew · 14/05/2023 01:32

What do you suggest I do when my 11 year old comes and tells me they really want to be in the choir and has an audition the next days lunch break. Say oh absolutely don't bother, you're shit at singing. I don't think she is even bad, she sounds like an 11 year old singing. Don't get me wrong, she doesn't have an amazing natural talent but nor is she someone who is completely out of time.

Why not get her singing lessons.

Weenurse · 14/05/2023 02:09

I was pulled out of the group audition in year 7 for choir. ( Apparently I sounded very bad compared to the rest).
I was asked if I could read music (yes, I played piano), so I was told I could turn the music pages for the pianist.
I still use that story to get out of singing at stuff!

CosimoPiovasco · 14/05/2023 02:12

Think the clue was in the need to audition.
Its the same with Drama…not everyone can be Cinderella.
If her voice isn’t good enough surely it’s kinder for her to know now.
If she wants to she could always have private lessons.

MrsFezziwig · 14/05/2023 02:18

tigerdrew · 14/05/2023 01:32

What do you suggest I do when my 11 year old comes and tells me they really want to be in the choir and has an audition the next days lunch break. Say oh absolutely don't bother, you're shit at singing. I don't think she is even bad, she sounds like an 11 year old singing. Don't get me wrong, she doesn't have an amazing natural talent but nor is she someone who is completely out of time.

You explain to her what an audition is and that not everybody can be chosen.

Assignedtoworryyourmother · 14/05/2023 02:18

It's not 'singing club ' it's a choir. Singing club would be anyone having a go, a choir is for those who can sing properly. I'm sure she has lots of other skills, but if she can't sing, choir is not for her.

WishingMyLifeAway · 14/05/2023 02:24

I think that's really sad. At my school choir was for everyone. I can hold a tune but don't have a nice or strong singing voice so would probably not have passed an audition but loved singing and was on choir all the way through school. I have very fond memories of it and still sing some of the songs/parts now! It makes me sad thinking I'd never have had that experience had I been at another school!

There was a real mix of abilities in our choir but it was fine when we were all singing together. We even went to choir competitions.

I do think some things can be about the experience of it and being involved in music in some way is developing skills and a way of being more well rounded. You don't need to be great at everything you do. Sometimes it can just be about enjoyment.

TwoShades1 · 14/05/2023 02:36

If they are doing auditions then is reasonable to assume that they can only take a set number of students or they must be of a certain standard. If they were happy to take students of any ability they wouldn’t run an audition. If it’s something she would really like to do then some singing lessons may bring her up to a good enough standard to audition again next year. As it’s a school choir I doubt they have a particularly high standard.

gillefc82 · 14/05/2023 02:39

Does the school have a drama club? Does it put on plays/musicals? Would your daughter be interested in that instead?

I’m not a great singer, but in my HS years was in the drama club and we would do 1/2 plays every year. They were usually musicals, so singing was involved and to be honest acting on a stage is brilliant - helps to teach you confidence as well as projecting your voice/public speaking.

Mummyoflittledragon · 14/05/2023 02:57

tigerdrew · 14/05/2023 01:29

Most clubs at school are about improving, anyone can sign up for the netball or football clubs, not sure how the team things work but even if they are selected from the clubs, anyone can still do the clubs. So even if they wanted a choir to perform and be the best, they should surely have an option for the kids wanting to participate and improve, like they do for everything else. DD was just told no and that's that, no way for her to get to sing at all at school even though that's what she enjoys and is interested in. Does just seem unfair

Dd had never played netball before secondary and she really enjoys it now and says she’s pretty good (she gets picked for the team) so it would be pointless to get Year 7s to try out. The peer pressure with football is such that by secondary boys know whether or not the can play football and have pretty much already self selected. Besides, only the ones, who can play will be picked to go to matches. Effectively this is just another form of audition and the kids not picked tend to drop out of the practice sessions.

LBHSisgreat · 14/05/2023 03:00

Get her a year of singing lessons and if she works hard she can reaudition. It's a great learning experience!

ElizabethBest · 14/05/2023 03:00

Replace singing with swimming. Now think about how silly you sound.

SparklyBlackKitten · 14/05/2023 03:04

Yabu. And rediculous really
They have auditions for a reason. To pick the good singers

"Do you really go around telling young kids they aren't good at something? That seems so sad..."

Of course you say to kids (especially your own!!!) They they are not good at something. But that isn't sad . Just reality. My kids are HORRIBLE at drawing and I tell them that. They are amazing at math. And I tell them that too.

Imagine if I'd send my kids to a drawing audition and then be all sad and annoyed that they didn't get in?! I know they suck. And even if they were just mediocre . If they dont qualify. They dont qualify. And I would encourage them to try out for something else.

Ladybug14 · 14/05/2023 03:05

But that's what an audition is for. To weed out those who are not good enough

And yes, you DO say to your child

'that's a shame that your voice isn't what they're looking for. If you'd like to sing in a choir, let's get you some singing lessons to help you improve'

I'd also check with the choir master at school to clarify what area in particular he'd suggest she improves

Stop being one of those mothers fgs

Izzy24 · 14/05/2023 03:07

CrapBucket · 14/05/2023 01:27

A school choir should accept everyone! Gareth Malone wouldn’t tell an 11 year old they aren’t good enough. He’d teach them ways to improve.

Yes this, absolutely.

Redglitter · 14/05/2023 03:09

My brother got into the school choir. He got kicked out a few months later. That was sorer than if he hadn't got in initially

jazzybelle · 14/05/2023 03:10

I tried out for the school choir in the juniors and was accepted. Two others weren't. That's life. We can't be good at everything.

EpicChaos · 14/05/2023 03:15

If everyone should just be able to join the choir if they want, regardless of being tone deaf, or whatever, how about other tone deaf kids playing all the violins? Is that what you'd like to listen to?
And what about poor parents having to cope with bleeding ears from having to listen to the screech, screech, screech of badly played violins. Schools would have to start therapy sessions for parents who've suffered the trauma and literal violence of hearing the noise.

Gwdihooooo · 14/05/2023 03:16

tigerdrew · 14/05/2023 01:26

Do you really go around telling young kids they aren't good at something? That seems so sad...

You risk becoming one of those parents who encourages their child to sing on x factor even though they’re rubbish… and they just get ridiculed for laughs

Tellmeimcrazy · 14/05/2023 03:20

Is this post for real? If you audition or try out for anything you don't get picked if you aren't good enough. Your child may be a good singer, but there were probably far better and both you and your child need to accept that.

I honestly think that this post is exactly what is wrong with parenting today. Overprotective parents who think their child should be picked regardless of how rubbish they are because they don't want their children's feelings hurt.

Would you hire someone for a wjob that was sub-par?

Itsallok · 14/05/2023 03:20

The key is the word - audition! Same as the school musicals - auditions are held, some get in, some don't. Same as sporting teams. Schools are actually good for this. And why should yeachers give up even more time for yet another choir. Cough up for singing lessons if its that important.

Your kid will have no resilience in life if you become that parent.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 14/05/2023 03:27

I can see both sides of this.

I've been in community choirs (for adults) where everybody is welcome - auditions for solos, as you'd expect - although I always remember one where there was a woman with the double whammy of being a terrible singer but convinced that she was amazing and insisting that she stand right under one of the microphones, so the tech guy just switched that one off!

Yes, a good choir leader can teach people to improve, within reason, but there are people - often those who insist on singing at top volume - who are just tone deaf and cannot/will not be helped, and who will single-handedly wreck the choir.

I don't know if anybody on here has seen the guilty pleasure programme 'I Can See Your Voice'. The basic premise is that contestants have to pick up on cues and clues when people mime (good ones mime to a recording of their own voice and bad ones mime to somebody else's, who IS good!) and guess whether they are good singers or bad singers - and they win money if they identify the good singers and the bad singers win the money if they can fool the contestants into thinking that they are good singers!

They usually avoid those who are mediocre and only have wonderful or horrendous singers - and the horrendous ones know that they are awful and think it might be a laugh and a good earner if they can wing it - but I always thought how extremely awkward it must be if the programme makers approached (or were approached by) terrible singers who genuinely believe they sound like Adele or Lewis Capaldi, when they actually sound like a cat with its tail trapped in a door!

Obviously, there are ways of telling people who sound terrible sensitively, but it's difficult when faced with those who refuse to listen and gainsay you when you tactfully try to tell them that they are good at a lot of things, but maybe singing isn't one of their fortes.

As has been said already, it's accepted that people are chosen/accepted on merit when it's a sports team, but it's often considered really cruel when it's a choir - even if somebody has such a frightful voice that drowns out the others and makes the choir into such a laughing stock that there's no point anybody else trying or even turning up.

It seems very unfair on people like me, who were the last to be picked for PE every single time (oh, the grimaces of sheer disappointment on the pickers' faces, who would rather their team have been one player down than have me), but who have quite good voices and have even on occasion been picked for solos.

It's a difficult one - especially when you often hear proclamations that 'absolutely anybody can learn to sing well', when the truth is more like 'most people can learn how to sing better, but some are thoroughly beyond all hope, however hard they may try'. Maybe it's also a significant factor that sports teams usually have a set number of people, so people can understand that they weren't one of the best seven (or whatever) players this time - but they were almost certainly the eighth best by the narrowest of margins(!), and can still make it on to the subs bench (which they never leave). In sharp contrast, choirs don't usually have a set number of people, so you can't use the excuse that "You're really great, but we already have X number of people who are just a tiny bit even more polished than you at this stage".