To think a secondary school choir rejecting an 11 year old based on their voice is horrible?

[tigerdrew]

Just had DD come in upset. It's quite random as it's the middle of the night and a weekend and we had a nice day today, told me she is still sad about how she is a bad singer and she doesn't want to see her music teacher as she is too embarrassed etc etc

DD tried out for the school choir which is done by audition so obviously she was aware there was some kind of judging involved and so was I but I do think rejecting a year 7 into something they are interested in trying is harsh, especially when it's hard enough for year 7s.

AIBU to think a school choir should just be for whoever is interested? When kids are all singing in a group they do sound the same anyway! Obviously maybe solos could be kept for the particularly talented but I'm honestly just a bit sad and even annoyed.

OP not sure if it helps but I was desperate to be in the choir. Between ages of 8-12 it was very prestigious so I got rejected every year because to be honest I couldn't really sing. I had to wait until it became uncool and the choir was more desperate then I got in. And ended up signing at the Albert Hall actually (with around 1000 other kids). That Albert Hall thing is one of my favourite memories of school! And I always laugh and feel impressed at myself at how I just stick with it every year until I could get in.

If you want to sing in the choir at the end of the day, it's only fair that either you can sing, or that the choir is desperate for people - I wasn't fussed which one I got into as long as I got in! Just tell your daughter to keep trying. It'll happen one day.

It is a shame that they don’t have a “just for fun” choir as well as the auditioned one.

The choir at my secondary school was open to any child who wanted in and was willing to go to all the practices. It may not have been the best choir in the world, but it was still a good confidence building activity for the kids who joined.

This makes me think of that X factor audition years ago when the mum had been telling her daughter she had a beautiful voice and completely lost it when Simon Cowell disagreed. I think she might have gone in and whacked him one. 🤣

The orchestra wasn’t auditioned either. But music students did have to audition to get into the uni and it was compulsory for them to play in the orchestra. But, other non music students who played instruments could also join. I guess you wouldn’t join an orchestra if you don’t play an instrument though. And o guess you’d only ask to join a choir of you thought you were able to keep up with the standard.

I’ve had zero singing lessons. I can now sing quite confidently in a choir and sing some quite difficult pieces. I sing in several choirs that are non auditioned. Singing on a choir is very different to playing on an orchestra. Orchestras are naturally slightly elitist as you have to be able to afford an instrument to learn and then a decent instrument to get a sound out of. Most people have a voice which is free to use - I say most as I work with non verbal students are able to join in with my singing sessions through sign language and movement but it’s j likely they’d request to join a purely singing choir. But the voice is an instrument that can be practised and improved with the help of just singing in a group. I went to train in Hungary where all children are expected to sing at this particular school. They sing from reception up to the age of 18. They generally don’t have children who ‘can’t’ sing as being immersed in regular group singing around children who can sing and staff who encourage singing, the very few children who seem to be ‘tone deaf’ eventually become able to sing by secondary. They are all given the opportunity to sing as their first instrument and then once they have mastered musicianship skills they then choose if they want to take up an instrument.

I do actually agree with you. My son’s school has 3 choirs - one for everybody, one auditioned for yrs 7-9 and another auditioned yr 10+. That seems much fairer to me.

How about private singing lessons?

Our experience says no, as per previous posts. Might as well try and get me a maths degree. My everyday arithmetic is fine, fortunately.

I didn't get into the school choir in Year 4, I was very nervous at the audition but tried again the following year and got in. I also sang in the church Junior choir. Some choirs have very high standards and consequently are more popular than others. We were sent to a school choir competition in London when I was in year 6, it was all very exciting. I didn't sing in any choirs in secondary school, our music teacher had very high expectations and I had enough other clubs to keep me busy.

Thank goodness for a post like this.

I was in a natural Voice choir for a few years. I'm not a confident singer but the approach - anyone can sing, learn by ear and not songsheets - did wonders for my confidence and my ability to sing. I agree, schools should have a community choir approach and then a smaller audition group if relevant or good for those singers to get more tutoring. Community music is an amazing experience. We do young people a terrible disservice to block them from creative opportunities such as group singing so easily.

I had one try out to play guitar at primary school, was told I was not capable and that was that, no other music opportunity for me ever and I assumed I was just shit at music. In my 20s I joined a drumming group and gigged all over the place. I just needed a way in that suited me - surely this part of education and access to art?

@ScotsBluebell excellent post

Would you rather they lied to your dd and told her she has a lovely voice and ruined the sound of the choir? If you are not good at something you need to practice more to improve. No one has told your dd she can never get better at singing, just at the moment her voice is not up to scratch. I was not in the choir. I didn't even audition because I knew my voice was not good enough. Get her some singing lessons if it bothers you so much.

Yabu. Letting everyone in is what they do in infants and juniors but once they get to secondary they actually have to be reasonably OK. The same happens for school plays, orchestra, football team, etc from now on. If they're no good they won't get in. I can't believe you even asked this. I guess you are mollycoddling your kids.

What do you suggest I do when my 11 year old comes and tells me they really want to be in the choir and has an audition the next days lunch break.

Well, obviously, you say, ‘That’s great, give it your best shot but remember that not everyone gets picked at auditions. If you miss out this year, you can always try again.’

Hear hear.
School choirs are for the school children to be part of and enjoy and learn and remember all their lives, not for adult audiences to be snooty about.

Nothing stopping a fussy listener from paying to go and see a professional choir.

I think a secondary school choir is very different from a primary school choir!

if she likes to sing, maybe she can be in a school production or something… they usually cry out for people to be in the “company”… a choir is very specific, needing the best voices.

Would you want her to do netball or tennis if she kept missing and tripping over her own feet? You can't be good at everything. It's a hard lesson to learn but 11 isn't that young. If she's interested in music then she could learn an instrument instead or you could pay for singing lessons.

Though I understand your feelings choirs aren't the same as clubs. If your daughter wants to learn to sing, find her a singing teacher or musical theatre club (though research those as they are often ran by dance or drama teachers not qualified or experienced to teach young childrens to sing and can do more harm than good)
Primary school choir's tend to take everyone, not so much senior school. I was in a very good choir at senior school, very much had to audition and performed in concerts and competitions all over. There were limited spaces (needed to fit on a coach for one basic reason) so spots went to the best singers.
I would suggest some one to one lessons if finances allow, or a group club with a proper singing teacher, then she can audition again next year.
I am a singing teacher and kids can make a lot of progress in a year - under the right teacher.

It's hard, everyone should be allowed to sing, but in this case I think you should understand the reasons and find her another way to do so, rather than let her feel defeated. (Nb. if she wants to sing long term, she will face a lot of judgement and rejection, so do need to grow a tough skin to it)

Im not sure why so many posters assume that not passing a school choir audition has devastating consequences.

Weve got people declaring her confidence will be irreparably damaged, she will NEVER be able to enjoy singing again, she’s been “deprived the joy of singing” She’ll never feel good enough about herself now!!

Lets give 11 year old kids some credit. The majority won’t enjoy feeling disappointed for a day or so but soon recover.
They bounce back and forget when a new hurdle in their life appears.

Most secondary school girls who like singing spent hours with their mates making music videos to put on TikTok.

Online comments on their singing will be a million times more savage than a music teacher kindly saying “Well done but unfortunately you haven’t made it into choir practice “.

Hopefully they have an open choir that she can join. At DD's school it is very clear which music groups are open to all and which are by invitation or audition. It is horrible though! I was rejected from my primary school choir and I literally stopped singing that day forever more. It was a massive blow to my confidence. There is something very personal about auditioning with your voice compared to auditioning with an instrument, so the rejection feels a lot more brutal. The kids that were selected may well have more singing experience, have trained voices and sight read music. Do encourage her to keep singing.

The fact that it was an audition means that they probably are oversubscribed and lots of kids (not just your daughter) wouldn't have made it through. A choir in secondary school would be made up of all different ages and they will only choose the best that are auditioning which would be ideal if all of them are 'good enough' to do a solo rather than just a couple of them.

My daughter Year 7 also - does some auditions (outside school) regarding acting and more often than not she doesn't always get them. But, we are teaching her resilience and she just gets on with her day and we are always proud of her for auditioning. No way would i encourage her to audition for a choir because her singing voice is that of an 11 year old but, there are loads of 11 year olds who sing amazingly.

My daughter didn’t get into the school choir aged 10. She tried again and again and by sixth form was singing solos at St Paul’s Cathedral. Try and get your daughter to see that it’s just one rejection. And she can try again another time.

They should of let her in the choir and improve over time the teachers are there to teach and improve these peoples life skills and talents. Rejecting someone may of actually lowered their self confidence and won't want to do it again. I was in a drama club in my school and it has auditions and even though I was bad I still made into the club I was just an extra or had one line to make us all feel like we were taking part. Tell you DD to go to the teachers and ask for another go and to not give up until she gets it. 😊

Everyone can sing. Not everybody can sing well. OP what about Rock Choir or something similar?

sorry that’s life, you and your daughter need to suck it up. life isn’t fair, the sooner people like you understand that the world would be a better place.