To think a secondary school choir rejecting an 11 year old based on their voice is horrible?

[tigerdrew]

Just had DD come in upset. It's quite random as it's the middle of the night and a weekend and we had a nice day today, told me she is still sad about how she is a bad singer and she doesn't want to see her music teacher as she is too embarrassed etc etc

DD tried out for the school choir which is done by audition so obviously she was aware there was some kind of judging involved and so was I but I do think rejecting a year 7 into something they are interested in trying is harsh, especially when it's hard enough for year 7s.

AIBU to think a school choir should just be for whoever is interested? When kids are all singing in a group they do sound the same anyway! Obviously maybe solos could be kept for the particularly talented but I'm honestly just a bit sad and even annoyed.

I agree with you OP. It’s not proper choir. It’s a school one. It should be open to those who enjoy music.

secondary school/adolescence is hard and music can have a wonderful impact on those involved. It also gives children a chance to mix with people outside their circle etc. I would rather go and see my kid singing in an ‘awful’ choir full of kids who were just passionate than one which was exclusive. I wouldn’t be impressed if I paid for a ticket at a professional venue and got a bunch of out of tune kids but it’s just a school thing.

If your dd really wants to sing and you can afford it, get her some lessons.
Most people can improve their singing, whether they naturally have a lovely voice or not. It's a skill that needs to be practiced regularly, like piano or ballet.

If you have the money, learning to play piano is great for singing. It really helps train the ear and builds knowledge about keys, vocal ranges etc.

And maybe there is some kind of community or church choir outside of school she could join? Things like that might be more relaxed and help her gain confidence.

I can't see how it's any different than having try outs for sports teams.

I think there's a value in non-competitive and inclusive activities, but also a value in talented dc having a space to excel.

YABU. Not everyone can sing in tune and if you are one of them, you don't belong in a choir. Thats why they have auditions. It's very off-putting standing next to someone singing off-key, it can throw the whole thing off.

I have listed some suggestions above so your dd has some options going forward if she really wants to sing.

I have sympathy though. My DH has a beautiful voice and has sung professionally in bands. His music teacher in primary school told him he 'couldn't sing' and it hurt him very much. It took him years and years to get over that and find the confidence to develop his voice.

Teachers have the power to scar people's confidence for life if they're tactless or not careful. The amount of adults I meet who say they were told they were crap at sports, couldn't draw etc is so sad. The truth is, if you practice ANYTHING you WILL get better at it, no matter your talent or ability when you start.

YABU. They audition for a reason, they want good singers. It is not always the taking part that matters but the winning. Maybe the school choir is exceptionally good and wins lots of competitions, they don’t want people who can’t keep in tune. My school choir did and wouldn’t accept people who couldn’t sing.

As someone who can and does sing, not everyone can actually sing.

Singing at a karaoke evening is not the same as singing The Messiah.

I'm not very good at tennis.
How very dare Wimbledon say I can't play?!
Get a grip.

First thing - it is ok and normal, that DD feels sad about it. Yes, she will have to get over it, but there is nothing wrong about the emotion and it is great she told you.

Yes, if the school has open clubs for sports and than selective school teams, it would be fairer to do the same about music, they can do easier songs with the "for fun one".

It was the same when I was 11 yo, the school choir was just a group of children who went through some music education outside of school. And a bit later a selective one was practically a small vocal group, entirely consisting from people who had solo singing lessons (outside of school, not with the same teacher).
The strange thing, it sounded normal, no-one questioned it, but maybe it shouldn't be.

Plenty used to sing in the community choir I used to be part of that couldn't really sing. Being in a group helps them. And we sounded great and we're very popular.

But it’s not “singing club”, it’s the choir. By your logic, it’s like saying anyone should be able to get onto the football or netball team regardless of how shit they are at sport. You’re being deeply unreasonable.

yabu op I enjoy playing the keyboard but I'd never pass any auditions for it because I'm not good.

True story: when I was 10, I went along with my friend Maria to audition for a new selective children's choir in our town. It was a HUGE deal at the time and made the local papers (this choir went on to win lots of competitions subsequently!).

Anyway, we all turned up on our allocated day, and had to stand in rows,singing scales to the piano, whilst stern-looking women walked up and down the rows listening. If they tapped you on the head you had to sit down.

After about 15 minutes of this, around half the room were sat down...me included. My friend was still standing. The 'sitters' were sent home, unsuccessful, and the standers had passed and were in the choir. It was quite a brutal audition and very public. I actually still feel the humiliation of that rejection...not 'because' I was rejected, but because of how it was done. We were so very young and it was quite a harsh way to do it.

I was devastated because I'd always been told I had a great singing voice, and was a Musician in other areas too (piano/saxophone and flute). It really knocked my confidence.

Anyway...several years later, after working my socks off, I attended The Northern College of Music, did my degree, and sang for many years on the professional circuit (before giving it all up after having my kids and becoming a primary school teacher 🤷‍♀️🤣)

OP...the moral here is, never give up on your dreams! If you work hard and train hard, it can pay off. Hope your DC is ok ♥️

That's simply the loveliest post on this thread @SpringIntoChaos .

What a lovely professional journey you have had and who knows, you might return to sining and music making in due time or combine teaching with your passion for music. 🎵

Very uplifting to read.

You're being unreasonable. Sorry

The kid auditioned and didn't get in.

Encourage her to find something else

She’s not being unreasonable.
Music (except by professionals) should be a joyous, collaborative experience that promotes community and teamwork.
Not an attempt by the school to exclude all but a few so they can win a, let’s face it, meaningless piece of tin.
If you’re a gifted singer and want to sing with the best, by all means seek out and audition for a professionally trained choir outside of school. But at school let every child who loves music join in and be a part of it.

She’s not being unreasonable.
Music (except by professionals) should be a joyous, collaborative experience that promotes community and teamwork
You seem to really underestimate how few people make it professionally as musicians and that actually there's a lot of very talented amateur musicians.

Many of my friends from school were grade 8 musicians from their mid teens. Only a handful went to study music to a higher level beyond college and only a handful of them do it professionally. At school I was a reasonably good chorister, good enough for an auditioned choir, but not good enough for chamber choir. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'd like to join an orchestra again but I'm not good enough. The local amateur ones play to a high standard and I don't currently meet that standard. As an audience member of I go to see them play, or local chamber choirs perform, I go to listen to well-performed concerts, not a mediocre rendition of anyone who wants to have a go.

Awww thank you...I do love to sing with my class (year 2s 😍) and my favourite singers are the ones who belt it out 'like nobody is listening' - sounding like a rumbling train on a rickety track. I just love their enthusiasm and joy 😍

(That said - obviously there is a place for audition only choirs/orchestras and bands of course...if it's competitive or professional, then clearly only the most talented will be accepted...but there are plenty of community ventures for those with more 'spirit' than 'skill' 😉)

Oh I really feel for you and your daughter. Mine went through exactly the same thing. She auditioned and was the only one out of her group of friends who didn’t get in. She was absolutely distraught. It’s so sad as in year 7 they are still keen to participate in all these activities whether they are great or not. As they get older they will naturally do less and less so I think it’s important that they have opportunities to participate in something that they enjoy, whether super talented or not. Luckily for my daughter there was also a non selective singing group which she joined and they even ended up doing a music tour in Paris. They were all abilities and they sound great when they perform. I would contact school and suggest an open access non audition singing club. I am sure there are other children who love to join. And please tell her that even though she didn’t get this chance, there will be something else waiting for her.

That was me! Only girl rejected from the choir. Didn't realise my voice wasn't good. I was disappointed but I got over it. Best to just move on and focus on something she is good at.

I think she should be allowed to join the choir if she loves singing. What is the point of the choir? Auditioning for good voices means the choir is intended to sound really good above everything. But in a choir you learn a lot about music, about harmonising, that you don't learn in music lessons. I speak as someone who has regretted for 60 years that our school choir went by audition.

big hugs to you and DD - yes it IS an important lesson to master BUT 11 is still very young to get your hopes smashed! If she's showing an interest in singing there are loads of am-dram choirs around (outside of school) who'd be delighted for her to join up - she may never make a professional singing but with the right coaching you can definitely improve the voice! Maybe remind her that pretty much EVERY famous person, whether actor or singer, was rejected multiple times after auditioning and went on to have amazing careers anyway - the key is persistence and being confident in what she enjoys and what she likes to do, and when she DOES improve then she can take pleasure in knowing that the school choir missed out ;-) (and to be fair whilst I think its not unreasonable for 'auditions' to be exactly that, I don't see why ANY school would discourage this kind of enthusiasm and not have a 'just for fun' choir too, my DD has a lovely signing voice but got terrible stage fright and because the choir HAD to participate in the various concerts and shows she decided not to join - might be worth mentioning to her music teacher at the next parents evening? just a though!)

Yes though not in those words obviously. They need to know they have strengths which they should absolutely be encouraged in & then things that they are less good at & thats ok. A life lesson they definately need to be taught at that age imo. Its all how you say it though & also a time & a place 🤷‍♀️

Totally reasonable to be rejected on bad voice at 11! She can have singing lessons and try again if she’s desperate to join!
People should be aware of what they are good at and not good at in life! My voice is bad and I think I realised when auditioned for Joseph at primary school age 9!

But at school let every child who loves music join in and be a part of it.

Sorry to pick on this point (not the poster in particular, few are making the same point about enjoyment)
My mum loves music, loved it since she was tiny.
Her singing makes dogs run away🙈 Loving music doesn't mean you should do music. She still "sings" at home a lot and loves it, but god, no way should she be anywhere near choir🙈