To be appalled by school toilet restrictions

[GoodWitch65]

Had a period talk with my DD age 11 and mentioned to have a pouch with sanitary products to be kept in her school bag just in case. She told me they are not allowed to use toilets at school during the class, only during the break. I was very surprised, growing up in European country this was never a problem in my school, everyone was allowed to use toilets whenever they needed. Spoke to a friend of mine, her kids go to another school, apparently this a standart practice I just can't wrap my head around how and why? My friend's DS used to have frequent kidney infections and wasn't allowed to use the toilet when he needed to, she had to get a note from GP to make him 'exempt' from the rules so he could use the toilet. Also her DD has started her period and had asked to use the toilet but was told no, poor girl had bled through her clothes, left a blood stain on her chair and got told off by the teacher for doing so! My friend sent numerous complaints to school but no to avail. I feel like I want to make some changes in 'toilet rules' at school but not sure where to start. It's a basic human need, even prisoners get to use the toilet when they need, why would primary school children be denied?

The abuse of toilets (vandalism, flooding) and going to the toilet (going awol, nefarious behaviour etc) was rife in the schools I've worked in and they would be classed as good comprehensives.

Yes, in an ideal world it should be perfectly reasonable that students can go to the loo on request, but in reality this would cause lots of problems.

Two things: schools toilets should only ever have those taps which run only when pressed (annoying as they are). Yes, I'm sure the vandals would get round this sometimes but it wouldn't be as easy to cause a flood.

Second: schools should employ a 'toilet bouncer' to patrol - not lurk inside the toilets, obviously, but someone robust enough to deter casual vandalism, bullying an vaping etc. Yes, I know school budgets are on the floor but a) a school i worked at employed 2 people to pick up the kids' litter (ridiculous), so... and b) the money might be re-couped by preventing damage and flooding problems.

Otherwise, special exemption passes for children who are obviously in need for some reason and are not notorious offenders would seem to be the only other answer.

Apart from messing about, using their phones etc, the main reason we don’t allow kids to go to the toilets unsupervised is because a student attempted suicide in the toilets several years ago. Luckily was found on time but we would never want to risk that happening again.

Students who have medical needs to go frequently have a pass.

Maybe it’s the current trend to drink lots of water that means people can’t hold on. I was on 1 hour flights a couple of times recently & the number of adults using the loos on the plane was astonishing

Because you can hold your wee for am hour if not see a GP. When you have a class to teach the needing the loo is the biggest reason for dossing

@Mooshamoo You're told to sit down, shut up, what to wear, where you can walk to , not given toilet breaks.

Have you ever had a job? I've had a variety of jobs since I was 16 and in 30vyears pretty much every single job has dictated the above.

When Iwas teaching I had a simple rule, one out-one in. I never said,”No” to toilet visits just asked them to wait till x came back. My other rule was that the only needed to say “”Excuse me” as they left the class room. This was in an ordinary comprehensive in the 80s/90s. I found I had far fewer requests for the toilet than previously.

Yes I've had loads of jobs. In every job, I've been able to go to be toilet

@CoffeeCantata has explained it far better than I could.

The OP probably grew up in a country where basic courtesy and respect still exists to some degree.

Sometimes I look at teens and think

"thank God I don't go to school anymore"

That was meant to say "are teenagers ever asked to give feedback on how schools are run"?

Yes, frequently, via 'school council'. In my long experience the vast majority of their suggestions and requests revolve around uniform and the school canteen.

Can't speak for secondary schools but often primary school aren't well designed with teachers unable to supervise children who 90% of the time use the toilet as a nice break from class, which impacts learning and in some cases provides opportunities for bullying.

Generally with infants the rule is one child at a time when needed and all go at break time with an adult supervising hand washing.

I've never met a teacher who doesn't exercise common sense and most classes have a child who you know to let to go without question. No teacher wants to humiliate a child. It's a case of communicating with the school rather than making a fuss about their systems.

OP simply it won’t be changed because of safeguarding. There are no longer enough staff in schools to have toilets patrolled during lesson time so they are spaces where assault, grooming, self harm, sexual behaviours and pictures and suicide can all take place. There is usually a system of toilet passes too - it’s not perfect but not draconian either.

I teach in a secondary school and the kids constantly complain about the rules about toilets (locked in lessons, in an emergency you can get a pass from a teacher at their discretion to go to a toilet by reception). It sounds and feels draconian, but honestly given that without close supervision the toilets and sinks are blocked and flooded, graffitied, loads of vaping, kids will truant in there and at least one pair of Year 11’s had sex in there once 🤢 we genuinely can’t keep them unlocked for students to use as they need. It’s fairly depressing!

When I was teaching I had a simple rule, one out-one in. I never said,”No” to toilet visits just asked them to wait till x came back. My other rule was that the only needed to say “”Excuse me” as they left the class room. This was in an ordinary comprehensive in the 80s/90s. I found I had far fewer requests for the toilet than previously.

Really? I've always had this rule too, but as previous posters have pointed out, students arrange to meet their friends from other classes, or simply ask to go to the toilet so they can have a break from the lesson. In my school atm (since they relaxed the rules about going to thr toilet during lessons) the last half of the last lesson of the day is disrupted by a constant stream of students asking to go to go, so as to avoid having to rush before getting on the bus home. I understand why they do that, but it really is a pain. I don't know what the solution is.

As pps have said, it's because they disappear off site or vandalise the toilets or both. We've had kids self harm in the toilets as well, and sexual assaults happen regularly in schools (toilets are a danger point as they have locking cubicles and no CCTV - we are told to watch out around toilets because of this specific issue at basic safeguarding training before anyone says I'm exaggerating or being dramatic). We've also had kids wander into the woods around the school site to do drugs. It's a safeguarding issue.

If there were loads of staff and security around then maybe it wouldn't be such an issue, but then it would feel even more prison like. You say it isn't a prison and it isn't, but if we let kids wander off site and didn't react I imagine parents would be rightly pissed off, especially if they went missing or came to any harm.

Teachers can let them go during class in our school but they give them a pass card. They often disappear though as they don't want to do whatever class they're in. There are also special pass cards for kids with medical issues which means they have to be allowed to go whenever they like.

I don’t get the problem. Notorious toilet time-wasters or vandals should be refused leave to use the toilet during lessons. The rest should be deterred from asking unless it’s an emergency (eg period). That can be done subtly. It’s only a few ruining it for others. It’s a discipline problem and, frankly, a depressing indictment of some schools.

I found a much better way to get time out class in high school. I spent an awful lot of time in sick bay. You get at least half an hour in comfort that way. (Still top of the class).

The thing is : it's not just about going to the toilet.

It also about the basic human right of teenage girls being able to get to the toilet to change pads. They can't change a pad in class can they. And often you can bleed through a pad in two hours.

I definitely remember dreading having my period in school.

Here's another one.

We had instances now of kids claiming they needed the toilet during lessons, only to find out afterwards they've attempted suicide in one of the cubicles.

And the teachers who let them go (despite the rules saying no toilet during lessons) got in trouble. Other kids have taken drugs while in the toilets. It's not worth my job to risk a student's life because they can and do get up to stupid things when left largely unsupervised during lesson time.

There is always someone on duty during breaks, so this kind of thing doesn't happen in between.

Honestly, if we only let the kids we 100% knew not to be absconders, self harm risk, or vandals, I can think of precisely zero children, except one who has mobility issues and already has special dispensation to leave clas whenever she needs to. The "well behaved, sensible" kids in our school can be at risk of MH issues and self harm because school is a stressful environment and teenagers will surprise you with their behaviour. We have a lot of social deprivation, gang violence, low attendance, as involvement, police on site regularly, ambulances called after overdoses, sensible seeming year sevens self harming in the classroom and so on in the school I work in. A colleague in a primary school has had knives in school in her year three class.

Mine is in an Ofsted rated 'good' school near some extremely affluent areas (just outside London).

If you don't "see the problem" good for you 😂🙄. You live a sheltered life clearly

Ugh typos

Class*
SS involvement*

But all that said, in an emergency, teachers use their discretion.

Leaving to fill their water bottle is another good way if escaping year 11 chemistry too. You find them wandering around 15 minutes later and then they simply refuse to return to class.

I've worked in more than one secondary school in the last couple of years so have recent experience of more than one. This isn't specific to just the odd school, it's quite standard around here.

The problem is, it is impossible to find out who did it. If you have 4 classes using one set of toilets for example, even if the teachers keep records (when we should actually be teaching), the kids who went during that time just deny it, because they know you can't prove it.

Last year we had girls writing REALLY nasty graffiti about each other - hortible, bullying stuff. Just could not get anyone to admit to it despite having only 3 or 4 suspects. The parents of the girl who was being written about were understandable livid. We still allowed the girls to go, but it was heavily restricted due to these repeated incidents.

I also had one child last year with an 'exemption' who was allowed to go when they liked. They regularly went missing for 20 minutes each toilet trip and was found wandering corridors at the other side of school by a TA. Just wanted to get out of work. So frustrating as they genuinely had medical issues but took advantage to go on a merry little adventure all the time.

It's also really difficult to just expel someone. If they are vulnerable at home, we are told they need to be in school, which is true. So their behaviour just has to be managed

Same here. Ds' grammar school and DD's grammar school have no such rules about toilet use while other local state schools have started locking the toilets during lesson times. 😖

Plenty of jobs e.g call centre jobs do have rules about this sort of thing though. And if I had a meeting I’d try to go before rather than needing to go during the meeting.