To be appalled by school toilet restrictions

[GoodWitch65]

Had a period talk with my DD age 11 and mentioned to have a pouch with sanitary products to be kept in her school bag just in case. She told me they are not allowed to use toilets at school during the class, only during the break. I was very surprised, growing up in European country this was never a problem in my school, everyone was allowed to use toilets whenever they needed. Spoke to a friend of mine, her kids go to another school, apparently this a standart practice I just can't wrap my head around how and why? My friend's DS used to have frequent kidney infections and wasn't allowed to use the toilet when he needed to, she had to get a note from GP to make him 'exempt' from the rules so he could use the toilet. Also her DD has started her period and had asked to use the toilet but was told no, poor girl had bled through her clothes, left a blood stain on her chair and got told off by the teacher for doing so! My friend sent numerous complaints to school but no to avail. I feel like I want to make some changes in 'toilet rules' at school but not sure where to start. It's a basic human need, even prisoners get to use the toilet when they need, why would primary school children be denied?

If a teenage girl seems desperate, I will usually let them go. But it isn't normal to bleed through a pad in two hours if you are using appropriate sanitary protection. If this is happening regularly I do think the girl in question should see a doctor.

I think, tbf, part of the issue is as a teacher I've had whole days where I haven't been able to use a toilet from 8.25 - 3.00 (or sometimes a bit longer) - I accept I'm an adult and I've had longer to learn to manage my periods, but asking students to last for 2 hours (often less than that) doesn't seem unreasonable.

There are lots of jobs where you can't use a toilet whenever you want.

It is normal to bleed through in a couple of hours. Especially depending on the type of protection available.

I remember in my school, they had one machine dispensing pads. They were the thinnest smallest pads you could imagine. They were tiny . Really bad quality. I remember the orange wrapper.

So if you started your period at school, those pads were the only thing that were available. You might aswell have been wearing nothing.

I remember on me girl in double science bleeding through her white lab coat. She was so embarrassed.

*I remember one girl

Its a lazy way to address the minority who take the piss, pardon the pun.

DC school was like this until another parents DC become very ill (they had a weird UTI symptom where if they didn't go when they needed it and held it in it "shocked" the bladder into not weeing when they had the chance to go). Poor kid ended up in a&e and unfortunately it went all over FB with the school getting a load of abuse and threats of suing if the kid became seriously ill!

Now they issue toilet passes and keep track of who/when etc to help identify the troublemakers. Seems to be working but its unfortunate it took a kid to spend a week in hospital very ill for it to change.

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The OP has been with us for a good few years now and while we can't ever vouch for anyone, we have no reason at all to think they are not above board.

This is total crap.

I worked in an Ofsted outstanding school. There will always be pupils who want to vandalise toilets. It’s not a school problem, it’s a parent problem.

How are schools supposed to police what happens in toilets when they don’t even have enough staff to teach classes?!

It’s always been like this.

Toilets in my school used to get locked outside of breaks and lunches because kids would go missing for a full lesson and skive in the toilets.

I find people make such a big fuss over periods these days, just change your pad on break and lunch and get on with the day.

Snort at "minority". I genuinely love working with the students in my school. They are brilliant in lots of ways and so much fun. They also have a bloody hard time and cope better than most adults would. But saying only a minority takes the piss is just inaccurate. It isn't malicious of them. It's part of their development and it would actually be unhealthy if they were mainly angels.

Yes this exactly.

Teenage girls love to make a fuss over periods I found in school like it was some life threatening illness.

Yes I've had loads of jobs. In every job, I've been able to go to be toilet

I was a teacher for 26 years. I could never get to the toilet when l wanted to.

Mumsnet said it's a long term poster

How are schools supposed to police what happens in toilets when they don’t even have enough staff to teach classes?!

If it was known that they would expel people who vandalised school property or caused other disruption then far fewer people would behave that way. Makes a lot more sense than forcing well-behaved kids to have disrupted lessons and even be restricted on when they can use the toilet because others behave badly. Same with any type of bullying: there would be far less of it if it was known to lead to immediate expulsion. In many countries such behaviour in schools is not widespread at all and children appreciate having an education so it is not impossible to have a different culture and ethos.

@Mooshamoo Times have changed regarding pads. We now have supplies of all absorbancy pads and tampons in every classroom and office. Girls (and boys) ca person help themselves and it's totally normalised.

Yes I've had loads of jobs. In every job, I've been able to go to be toilet.

I've taught in many schools during my 27 year teaching career. In most it would not have been safe or permitted for teachers to leave a class to go to the toilet. In my current school it would be safe and I'm not actually sure if it's against the rules, but teachers just aren't in the habit of doing it. I certainly wouldn't.

By definition it is a minority, otherwise it would be the majority of students wanting to use the toilet during lessons are taking the piss. Since it isn't, minority is the correct word to use.

If it was known that they would expel people who vandalised school property or caused other disruption then far fewer people would behave that way.

As has been pointed out, schools cannot do this. They do not have the power to just decide to expel students. That's not how it works. And where do you think those students would go? To other schools, where they would cause exactly the same problems.

I remember not letting one girl go once, and she shouted ‘I need to change my pad’ at the top of her voice!😂

It's borderline impossible to permanently expel a student. This results in them ruling the roost. Behaviour around toilets is dire. Constant toilet trips in lesson time is a major distraction from the learning and a safeguarding concern (a student leaves and doesn't come back for some time, how long until you try and chase that?)

They get so many breaks though that really the most they should have to sit there for is 1.5 hours?

I’ve worked in secondary schools for years. Honestly it’s not really safe to have kids going to the toilet in lessons. There’s not enough staff in schools to teach lessons let alone watch what’s going on in the toilets and unfortunately kids get up to all sorts in there. I’m not just talking vandalism either, there’s physical attacks and bullying to worry about as well. My daughter has a lot of trouble with her bowels and under gastro. She has a toilet pass in primary but I’d be worried for her own safety when she wants to use it in secondary

Before I worked in a school I was very much on the side of allowing kids to go to the toilet whenever they need it. I still don't feel entirely comfortable with the restrictions around using the toilet that are in place in most secondary schools, but now I understand why those restrictions exist and to be completely honest I've yet to hear a credible alternative.

Comments like the above "schools need to put behaviour management etc in place" are totally meaningless in reality. Schools have massive problems with kids hiding in the toilets to use their phones, vape or truant lessons. Not to mention vulnerable kids who use the school toilets to self-harm. Toilets can also be hot-spots for bullying. Staff are stationed outside the toilets on break and lunch duty but we simply don't have enough available adults to do this during lesson time as well. A huge amount of the pastoral teams time is spent looking for students who ask to use the toilets then go missing, this is taking time their time away from delivering direct support for the most vulnerable kids in school.

Toilet passes are issued for those with actual medical issues (including heavy periods) but the majority are perfectly capable of managing a maximum of 2 hours between toilet trips.

If you want to get into it, I think it may be fair to say it's the minority of occasions but not the minority of students as I think there are occasions throughout their school life when most students would have a go at skipping a class they hate. But I'm not sure it's particularly important. More importantly is that it isn't just occasions when they are "taking the piss" which are problematic. It's when they potentially run into another student who doesn't like them and there aren't any staff members around due to them being in class or the occasions when the student is feeling very overwhelmed and leaves the class but the teacher thinks they've just gone to the toilet when they actually are having a crisis.