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Original poster

Why is it ok to be violent and insulting to a woman who makes a mistake.

339 replies

whatisgoingonintheworld · 10/05/2023 14:26

A female calls a person 'lady' in error because she thought the person was female. The person identifies as non binary. The trans manager then verbally insults and finally physically assaults the woman and the man outside.

Is this really what we have come to. A simple word and the non binary is upset and so the trans person can kick a customer from the shop, purposefully insult and then assault.

So is misgendering (even by accident) so serious it merits verbal abuse and physical violence? I mean it isn't even obvious whether the person she called 'lady' behind the counter is non binary, looks female. The trans woman manager looks male and certainly acts it!

Why are so many trans women displaying what was formally seen as masculine traits (violence) now that they identify as female.

OP posts:
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7
TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 10/05/2023 14:43

Typical male behaviour from a man, yet somehow, (mainly) women are called names and silenced for daring to speak up.
Well I won't stop speaking up.
Transwomen are men.

Shoxfordian · 10/05/2023 14:43

It sounds like the customer was already being difficult - was probably just the last straw

RoseRobot · 10/05/2023 14:44

@Ilovetea42 - then you watched a different video from the rest of us. The trans manager was looming over her using classic mysogynistic male pattern aggression - using physical presence to try and dominate and intimidate a woman, clapping in her face. If some huge man's hands came at my face I'd think I was about to be slapped - that was the clear intention. He called her Karen - an intentional insult. She didn't intend to insult anyone. She was a customer. My guess is that if a man a foot taller than the trans manager, built like a brick shithouse had called the non-binary person 'lady' trans bully have done no more than raise an eyebrow. he clearly got a huge kick out of threatening the woman and I think the onlooker was absolutely right to film the evidence of this unwarranted aggression from a man to a woman.

Original poster
whatisgoingonintheworld · 10/05/2023 14:45

fabbykadabra · 10/05/2023 14:42

Obviously violence isn’t okay and I’m not sure where it’s been implied that it is?

Without seeing the start of the interaction it’s difficult to understand why the situation escalated so much. This is definitely not a typical reaction to innocent misgendering, so either there is more context that we have missed to explain why the manager was so riled up (not that that excuses her becoming physically violent) or just a case of the manager being aggressive. Her being trans is largely irrelevant, just as with any other demographic there are good and bad people. One aggressive trans person isn’t a reflection on trans people as a whole and most would not act this way over one mistake.

The story suggests that the female used the word 'lady' with regard to the person behind the counter. The person behind the counter identifies as 'non binary' so the trans woman then took that as an insult and so called the biological woman a 'Karen' and insisted she leave, she called her a transphobe' to which the biological woman says she isn't. The trans woman refused to give the biological woman a refund and made her leave, grabbing a camera and shoving the biological woman out through the door. Then broke the door.

OP posts:
Ilovetea42 · 10/05/2023 14:45

RoseRobot · 10/05/2023 14:44

@Ilovetea42 - then you watched a different video from the rest of us. The trans manager was looming over her using classic mysogynistic male pattern aggression - using physical presence to try and dominate and intimidate a woman, clapping in her face. If some huge man's hands came at my face I'd think I was about to be slapped - that was the clear intention. He called her Karen - an intentional insult. She didn't intend to insult anyone. She was a customer. My guess is that if a man a foot taller than the trans manager, built like a brick shithouse had called the non-binary person 'lady' trans bully have done no more than raise an eyebrow. he clearly got a huge kick out of threatening the woman and I think the onlooker was absolutely right to film the evidence of this unwarranted aggression from a man to a woman.

Just because she's a customer does not give her the right to shout at the staff and be rude which is what she was doing. I thought the manager was quite restrained to begin with, if a customer acted that way towards me I'd want them removed as well. She was well out of order to begin with

Original poster
whatisgoingonintheworld · 10/05/2023 14:46

RoseRobot · 10/05/2023 14:44

@Ilovetea42 - then you watched a different video from the rest of us. The trans manager was looming over her using classic mysogynistic male pattern aggression - using physical presence to try and dominate and intimidate a woman, clapping in her face. If some huge man's hands came at my face I'd think I was about to be slapped - that was the clear intention. He called her Karen - an intentional insult. She didn't intend to insult anyone. She was a customer. My guess is that if a man a foot taller than the trans manager, built like a brick shithouse had called the non-binary person 'lady' trans bully have done no more than raise an eyebrow. he clearly got a huge kick out of threatening the woman and I think the onlooker was absolutely right to film the evidence of this unwarranted aggression from a man to a woman.

That was my 'take' too. The classic misogynistic male pattern but in a persons who identifies as a trans woman. But 'nothing to see here' is the response of many.

OP posts:
SunnyEgg · 10/05/2023 14:46

Shoxfordian · 10/05/2023 14:43

It sounds like the customer was already being difficult - was probably just the last straw

I doubt she was being difficult

He was just an aggressive male on edge. Whatever is worn can’t hide that.

13Bastards · 10/05/2023 14:47

Hmmm, I'm of the mind that there was more to this than a short video. The customer is asking for a refund, I assume the person behind the till made an error, spoke to the manager and Mis gendered and it's escalated from there. Pure speculation on my part of course but I don't think this customer simply referred the person behind till a lady once by accident and it led to this reaction by the manager.

Either way, however the manager identifies. They clearly aren't cut out for retail if that's how the react to someone. Get a thicker skin

OneTC · 10/05/2023 14:47

As with every one of these videos I'd love to see the lead up.

When the video starts there's one person being aggy

Lockheart · 10/05/2023 14:47

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 10/05/2023 14:43

Typical male behaviour from a man, yet somehow, (mainly) women are called names and silenced for daring to speak up.
Well I won't stop speaking up.
Transwomen are men.

"Being silenced"? This story has been all over the news and social media this week and the commentary is almost universally negative about this person's actions.

Swrigh1234 · 10/05/2023 14:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Oh here we go, right on cue. The first misogynist makes an appearance.

PinkyU · 10/05/2023 14:49

No, there’s never any misgendering on mumsnet is there (?)

fabbykadabra · 10/05/2023 14:49

I can see what the story suggests. I’m saying we haven’t been eyewitness to the full interaction. I highly doubt it went from one innocent mistake to the manager immediately screaming and throwing the customer out. More likely the customer was also being argumentative or reacted badly
to being corrected. I have never seen someone react this badly to someone being misgendered unintentionally without any other aggravating factors.

SunnyEgg · 10/05/2023 14:50

Swrigh1234 · 10/05/2023 14:49

Oh here we go, right on cue. The first misogynist makes an appearance.

Show quote history

Yep to this.

Swrigh1234 · 10/05/2023 14:50

It’s like satire. A non binary dude and a trans dude abuse a woman because she had the audacity to call the one of them a lady. The world is going backwards.

Florissante · 10/05/2023 14:51

Ilovetea42 · 10/05/2023 14:35

I mean I've watched the video - the manager was not violent towards the woman and they attempted to remove the phone from the other customer who was recording them. If someone was trying to record me out of context without my consent likely to put on social media with their own spin I 100% would be angry and want them to stop recording. I also think it's impossible to know the context from a 50 second video. I think it's fair for customers to be asked to leave for abusing staff whether due to race/ gender/disability etc and I think it's fair for a manager to defend their staff team. We have only one side of the story here which is the person who was being asked to leave and their husband who was filming so it's hardly an impartial article is it? We've no way to know if they repeatedly do this, if they did it on purpose, if they come in regularly and are difficult towards staff etc.

The vast majority of trans and non binary people understand that misunderstandings will happen and usually all that's expected is an apology and correct gendering going forwards. Its highly unlikely that's what happened here.

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Biscuit
OneTC · 10/05/2023 14:51

In the video the only thing the manager says was that the customer called the manager a man.

Didn't say anything about the person at the till did they?

FisherthemsFriend · 10/05/2023 14:52

I might be wrong but I think both staff members are non-binary.

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 10/05/2023 14:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Woman gets harassed by a MALE
Her partner is assaulted by a MALE

He takes it upon himself to harrass and assault on behalf of a member of staff - who we've no idea was offended at all!

But ahhhh, the man has a special identity, so instead of talking about male violence or what a horrible experience for the customer and her partner, we're 'daily mail culture war frothers' 🙄

And to the pp, what do you think would happen if that interaction wasn't filmed eh? I'll tell you what would have happened: That Starbucks manager would be all over social media calling her a lying cow, claiming she was the aggressor! Starbucks would have shrugged off the whole thing as no proof, and that violent prick would still be in a job, probably crowing on TikTok about how he stood up for "trans rights".

The only right I'm seeing is the right to abuse women, he wouldn't have tried that with a bloke I can guarantee it. He was waiting for a woman to unleash all that pent up rage on.

Swrigh1234 · 10/05/2023 14:53

FisherthemsFriend · 10/05/2023 14:52

I might be wrong but I think both staff members are non-binary.

No, one is a man and the other a woman.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 10/05/2023 14:54

She was well out of order to begin with

It is so depressing how many people will excuse male aggression and violence towards women. I had (naively) thought that the days of "she was asking for it" were well and truly behind us.

Ilovetea42 · 10/05/2023 14:54

whatisgoingonintheworld · 10/05/2023 14:45

The story suggests that the female used the word 'lady' with regard to the person behind the counter. The person behind the counter identifies as 'non binary' so the trans woman then took that as an insult and so called the biological woman a 'Karen' and insisted she leave, she called her a transphobe' to which the biological woman says she isn't. The trans woman refused to give the biological woman a refund and made her leave, grabbing a camera and shoving the biological woman out through the door. Then broke the door.

Show quote history

When did they shove the woman out the door? The woman is still by the counter as the manager exits to get the camera. I would imagine the manager is annoyed because the woman has rudely refused to deal with them, instead choosing to covid on a more junior member of staff to try and get a refund which isn't acceptable. I hate the term Karen as well but the woman has been rude and bullying towards junior members of staff already by her own admission in the article- something she clearly doesn't see an issue with.

Yate12 · 10/05/2023 14:55

I'm not in any way defending the trans manager, but there is probably more to this than we are being told. Would like to hear the other side of the story.

OneTC · 10/05/2023 14:57

The only right I'm seeing is the right to abuse women, he wouldn't have tried that with a bloke I can guarantee it. He was waiting for a woman to unleash all that pent up rage on.

Her partner is assaulted by a MALE

🤔

IncompleteSenten · 10/05/2023 14:59

"Why are so many trans women displaying what was formally seen as masculine traits (violence) now that they identify as female."

Because they are not female. Not raised and socialised as female.
They are born male. Raised as male, with a full serving of male entitlement.

That doesn't vanish when they decide they are women.

In fact, it could be argued that demanding your wants are prioritised over all others and that everything is reorganised to suit you and becoming aggressive if anyone does not capitulate is the height of male entitlement.