Why is it ok to be violent and insulting to a woman who makes a mistake.

[whatisgoingonintheworld]

A female calls a person 'lady' in error because she thought the person was female. The person identifies as non binary. The trans manager then verbally insults and finally physically assaults the woman and the man outside.

Is this really what we have come to. A simple word and the non binary is upset and so the trans person can kick a customer from the shop, purposefully insult and then assault.

So is misgendering (even by accident) so serious it merits verbal abuse and physical violence? I mean it isn't even obvious whether the person she called 'lady' behind the counter is non binary, looks female. The trans woman manager looks male and certainly acts it!

Why are so many trans women displaying what was formally seen as masculine traits (violence) now that they identify as female.

THIS^

The manager didn’t know how the customer identified yet called her a ‘Karen’. For all he knew she identified as male or non binary too! So was he also potentially being ‘transphobic’?!

As an aside - using “fishwife” as a derogatory term is insulting to generations of hard working women.

And it needs to be in a really big font.
and preferably in a bold typeface, so those of us who need reading glasses can read the bloody thing.
and just to make sure we notice this badge in the first place, better surround it with flashing lights.
and maybe have it make an automated message every 20 seconds for the benefit of anyone who is visually impaired.

Even it does all of those things why should members of the public be compelled to go along with it?

That's forced speech. It's forcing a person, women in the main to go along with an ideology that they may not agree with.

I don't agree with it, I find it offensive and ridiculous.

These people can wear what they like and can call themselves what they like, but if they require me to validate them by lying about what I see with my own eyes then that's their problem not mine.

Because using pronouns means more than being 'polite' it has direct links to harming women as a sex class. If I call a man her then I am saying that I accept that he has the right to be in single sex spaces.

I pressed post to soon, that should have said that if I call a man her I I am basically saying that I accept he has the right to be in single sex spaces which should be reserved for women.

But why do people have to be compelled to say it?

If it’s a big burly man with a beard would you say she just due to a badge?

What can they do if you don’t?

No, because they is a special person. The rules do not work both ways.

@SunnyEgg - trans rights activists would say that a trans woman who has been ‘misgendered’ has a perfect right to shout at, abuse, threaten and even assault the person who misgendered them.

According to TRAs, anyone who does not bow down to their fantasies and validate their identities should die in a grease fire, or be raped or beheaded. Wearing a t-shirt that advocates violence against TERFs, and has a blood spatter pattern all over it, is absolutely fine - and sweetly feminine to boot. Doxxing people who disagree with them, hounding them out of jobs, censoring anyone who does not toe the trans women are women party line - all current tactics of the TRAs.

Yeah, I don't take ridiculous instructions from anyone, wearing a badge makes zero difference.

This.
And my brilliant "fish wife" ancestors wouldn't have put up with some narcissistic toerag in an overpriced caff clapping his hands in their faces and calling them names.

@limitedperiodonly
you wouldn't argue over £10. What does that have to do with anything other than you think £10 is not worth the candle when confronted with a physically intimidating person who is is in fact, a man.

Well yes, I would very much argue over £10. I've argued over 10p in my life. But not if I was in fear of my life. Then I'd be making a strategical withdrawal to the door, probaby still standing up for myself but making sure I got somewhere safe. If I was in fear of my life, I wouldn't be still standing at the counter, waving my finger around, arguing over a coffee. If you're doing that, your life might be in danger but you're not worrying about it.

I'd think that too in my calmer moments but I have argued with men when I was in the right. That wasn't wise, but would that make me wrong? As you say, it might make me stupid but are you saying the much bigger, stronger male bodied aggressor is right and women who don't back down are stupid.

It's not wrong to argue your position when you're right, (which, as I've said, I believe this woman was) but, as you say, it's not always wise to do so. I think anyone, man or woman, who is actually in fear of their life, ie thinking they are going to die, is foolish to stay and put their life in danger over a couple of coffees. The fact that you think its OK implies that you would encourage your children to endanger their lives over trivial things too. Which I'm quite sure you wouldn't.

The Piers Morgan and Meghan Markle analogy is entirely fitting. This was a man who said she was lying when she said she was suicidal.

Was has bringing them into your argument helped elucidate? I don't know why Morgan said Markle was lying. But as you've brought Markle into the discussion, if she was out.and came face to face with a far right yob and she thought he was going to kill her, do you think she'd attempt to reason with him or retreat behind her protection officer?

Having a bigger, stronger taller male-born person shouting in my face would be traumatising to me. I've had it with someone a foot taller than me bending down so close I could feel his spittle. The only thing that didn't make me feel threatened...

Then you can't say you would definitely be traumatised, because it did happen to you and you weren't traumatised.
This woman gave back as good as she got. It might be that later she reflected and thought, or maybe was told, that it could have ended up very badly. But in the moment she was in that shop, she wasn't in fear of her life.

It's male violence and I do not understand why anyone, much less women, excuse it.

As I've said, I don't think the woman did anything wrong. She fully deserved her coffee or her money back. On the other hand, the employee was totally in the wrong, deserved to be sacked and to face anything the police direct at him. No one should lay their hands on someone else. And that applies to men and women.

If it's not a problem for you, that's that is dandy but you don't have the right to say how any other woman feels about it whether it's a man on national telly or one in a Starbucks in Southampton

I don't blame her for being shaken up afterwards but in the moment she was not in fear of her life, although, I understand how looking back, she might reflect on how it could have turned out differently.

No cash likely excludes a lot of the more vulnerable members of our society - the elderly and people who can't access bank accounts.
I don't think that's right. Middle aged women tend to be viewed as uppity simply for having opinions.

my attempt at humour obviously missed the mark, as I totally agree with you

I got it @TrashyPanda ! Your posts are fab!

I don't blame her for being shaken up afterwards but in the moment she was not in fear of her life, although, I understand how looking back, she might reflect on how it could have turned out differently.

@PollyPeptide maybe not in the video clip, but the comments made by the customer today are about the whole incident which culminated in being physically thrown out of cafe by the former manager

Oh that's good.

There are so many who think that women should just 'be kind'.

It's printed all over girls clothes. Social conditioning starts from a very young age.

It's not surprising that women have been led to believe that they are bigots for telling the truth. It's how we've ended up with men destroying women's sport, male rapists in women's prisons, unisex toilets in schools etc etc.

I'm not playing the game anymore. No way.

The Starbucks manager is a twat-that is certain- and I am quite happy to identify him as such.

He is also a man, despite telling himself that he is a woman. It is shit like this that has led to men serving time in women's prisons.

He is a man-he was correctly identified as such and it's time to stop playing along with it.

I don't blame her for being shaken up afterwards but in the moment she was not in fear of her life, although, I understand how looking back, she might reflect on how it could have turned out differently.

Which moment? The one you could see in the video or the apparent CCTV footage that followed the video where she was shoved out of the door and the glass shattered? Just after her husband was assaulted. Because whilst I may not have feared for my life during the initial aggression from the tall man, I could certain imagine the later escalation would have made me feel like that.

You might not be taking the exact same stance as other posters, but it’s the same outcome - minimise the man’s actions, blame the woman. If the woman feels fear, minimise that. Somehow make it all seem trivial and not worthy of mention.

It didn’t happen, but if it did it was her fault. If it was his fault, it wasn’t that big a deal…

I can comment on the video because I've seen it. I can't comment on the cctv because I haven't. I don't know if she was hustled out, pushed out or thrown out. I can say her own words.

The Starbucks manager grabbed me and threw me out of the café. I could have been seriously hurt or even killed because if Mark hadn't caught me, I would have crashed onto the pavement.

Again, she wouldn't have got killed falling on the pavement. Its possible under unlucky circumstances that she could have been seriously injured. Most likely she would have been bruised and scraped. But she was caught by her husband so in the half a second that would have taken, she didn't fear for her life.

I mean I've been very clear that I support what the woman did and in my eyes she did nothing wrong. I'd have done the same as her. I've condemned the employee. I don't think assault is trivial. That's not minimising anything or excusing anything. She just didn't think she was going to die.

@Ilovetea42

How does calling a woman 'Karen' fit into your list? That ok?

Bloody silly fluffy headed woman. Handled it all wrong didn't she? FFS. 🙄

That thing behaved dreadfully & will not help with general empathy & sympathy towards people who decide they are trans.

And calling the women Karen? Come on...

Having a bigger, stronger taller male-born person shouting in my face would be traumatising to me. I've had it with someone a foot taller than me bending down so close I could feel his spittle. The only thing that didn't make me feel threatened...

Then you can't say you would definitely be traumatised, because it did happen to you and you weren't traumatised.

@PollyPeptide WTF? Are you real? The only reason why people don't realise bad things are going to happen to them is because it's so surreal they can't believe it's happening until it does.

Like someone screaming in your face when you are buying a coffee or in my case, a 6ft 5ins man bellowing: "Fuck off! You cunt!" at a scheduled business meeting when I said: "Hello. I've just heard your wife is expecting your first child. Congratulations!"

I remind your that this was a scheduled business meeting but as his soppy wife and agent told me, he'd had a bad day at work.

I was traumatised. Wouldn't you be? I think about it still and wonder what I did wrong. No I don't. The only thing I did wrong was meeting a violent woman hater and the only reason I didn't feel threatened in the moment was because I couldn't believe he would punch me in the face in a room full of people.

No one has ever punched me in the face., so how would I know some men do that to women who are uppity or stupid?

The men I grew up with and live with now would never do that. So why would I think that?

That was naive of me. He'd have done it if he hadn't been led away and everyone would have denied it even if they saw it and dismissed it as a bad day at work and something I must have said that they didn't hear because he was a celebrity and a hero. Sportsman, actually. Like transwomen, they are favoured men. Sometimes they cross over.

But even if someone isn't a celebrity there are always plenty of people to make excuses for male violence and that includes women.

There shouldn't even need to be a discussion about whether a woman feared for her life or not in the course of attempting to buy a coffee from Starbucks. That the manager behaved in a way that potentially could have made her fear for her life is just 🤯 whether she actually did or not is by the by. Bizarre that someone is splitting hairs about this, really.