She’s too friendly with him?

[Suspiciousmind1]

I’ve had this nagging feeling for a while about a woman who has slowly snuck into our social group. She’s a single mum, attractive, hard worker (a trait my DH finds attractive), has a fair bit in common with my DH, members at a similar sports club….

In January DH went on a sporting holiday, organised my his sports club and on it were several of our mutual friends. I was meant to go too but had to pull out at the last minute due to a sick child. Said girl went on the trip. There was a pretty active group what’s app (which I was on) prior to this and for a few weeks later, so I didn’t think much of their messages. the what’s app has quietened down and I’ve noticed some facebook messages coming up between them. I’m fine with this, or at least I was until recently, as I often message some of our mutual
single male friends.

Since the trip he’s now going to the club more frequently. I assumed it’s to increase his fitness as we’ve both piled on the pounds and are on a health kick. There have now been a few occasions where I’ve been at work and he’s taken our DC out for the day and they’ve randomly ‘bumped into each other.’ Over the bank holiday weekend a message with our mutual friends has been put on FB suggesting meal at our local pub. Guess who turns up too?
On the first May bank holiday we went to an event with some friends… who rocks up?

its all been at the back of my mind but we’re so easy going with things and trust each other to be friends with the opposite sex. However it’s starting to nag away with me. I took our 3 yo to the park last week and she recognised her daughter who was there with her dad. As far as I know, they’ve only met once. Then this morning I got a call from a mutual friend (member of the club, went on the trip, part of the extended friendship group) and this woman came up in conversation. She asked what I thought about their friendship, their messages, the fact that she seems to now turn up to everything. I honestly hadn’t really thought about it to that extent but others are now noticing.

So I did what I vowed I’d never do and I feel so bad for doing so, but I’ve downloaded his messenger back onto our home iPad (I’m sure the app has recently been deleted!!) and I’ve scrolled and scrolled through daily messages.
how’s your day? Where were you this morning (the club activity?) You two going to X’s party?
they’re sending selfies of themselves doing normal yet random things, photos of drinks that obviously remind them of their trip away, he’s sent a couple of photos of him during his work trip abroad.
it turns out she ‘owed’ him money (a pretty considerable amount) from their trip- he’s said it’s his treat! Apparently his first drink when they ‘party’ at an upcoming event is on her…
She was out at a birthday meal with me, he was at home with DC, she’s messaged him saying she’s out with me and I’m really good fun…
It goes on….

in fairness, it’s nothing more than the type of friendly banter you’d have with a friend, but other people are now talking. The messages are secret. Im only finding out about their little ‘random’ meets in passing. I’m now thinking he left a family party on Monday to do a site visit in a village where she’d tagged herself in a street party post. They didn’t meet up, but was he hoping to?

I don’t want to jump the gun here, I don’t want to confront him about messages that he would know I’ve read, I don’t want to say people are talking, I don’t want to be the bad guy here to shoot down their friendship because I don’t trust him…

I want to believe it’s nothing more than friendly banter but I’m really not sure now.

I need to nip it in the bud now though. I know this is how affairs start. How the hell do I handle it?

I don't know whether you're one of these defend a man at all costs people, or just very unworldly and really have no idea what this looks like and how it differs from typical messaging of another male who's a friend?
This is multiple daily messaging, for no other reason that to engage with the person. That level of communication means they're either sending a message or waiting for a response all day long. Meaning they are rarely out of each others thoughts for long. All day, every day. Most people would consider that a lot of head space to devote to a random woman you've not long met.

This

Yep - I don’t message any of my friends - male or female continually throughout the day. Sending selfies, pictures. Nobody. I don’t do that with DH. That is a whole new level of emotional involvement and constantly thinking about someone.

The only time I have behaved like that (or someone has with me) is in the early dating stage.

Read this and feel sad. I don’t think I could feel secure and happy in a marriage where my husband is seemingly so close with another woman, sending her selfies and messages throughout the day but doesn’t send me any, he seeks her out, he treats her with money and “employs” her to do small things for his parents. I’m sorry, I don’t buy any of this “innocent” stuff that he doesn’t find her attractive. Yes he does. And his attitude of acting innocent is deceptive and disloyal to you. He said he’d take in consideration what you said as if he is your boss and you’ve supplicated him to please consider your worth, and then he picks her “friendship” over his marriage. Trust should be absolute in a marriage. My dh had a couple of good female friends while we were dating, we all worked together and I liked them, but they naturally fell to the wayside because I became that and more to him, I didn’t say or do anything, he naturally gave me his allegiance and I gave him mine. He didn’t lose anything by this, they also got married, people move forward with their lives and relationships change. Your husband likes to keep his options open and call it being friendly. Well others have noticed his friendliness zooming in on one in particular who is likewise encouraging it.

Like previous posters I really recommend reading ‘Not Just Friends’. It explains this dynamic like nothing else I’ve seen, and also what to do about it.

Just cutting back on the messages won’t cut it I don’t think. The friend has inserted herself in too many areas of his life for that. And he’s allowed it to happen even if he wasn’t initiating, or fully aware of it at the start.

It really needs to be addressed by both of you as a couple, redrawing the lines of your relationship. But you’ve got a strong network and that’s a real positive here

There are some mad responses on here! Lol that anyone would be happy with this set up

They’re courting, op. It’s as simple as that. Under the guise of friendliness. Sure. They are in the first exciting happy flush of early days of romance. Selfies, asking about each other’s day, messages throughout the day, bumping into each other all the time, him giving her little treats of money and easy little “jobs” where again he gives her money. Wow, she is very sly isn’t she.

He is very foolish.

Some women are so keen to be cool girls, that they would not believe their DP/DH was having an affair even if they found him doing the deed with someone else.

Even if the whole thing was entirely innocent - which I doubt - the point at which you're being humiliated by other people telling you they are too close, means it needs to stop. You've said your piece now OP, I hope your DH realises what he stands to lose by pursuing this any further.

OP,

I am so sorry but IMO he has absolutely broken your wedding vows by his behaviour.

He's well into an emotional affair territory with the level of daily contact he has been having.

He knows well that he has over stepped, and that it has caused so much comment tells its own story.

She has form and he knows it.

Won't show you messages and has given her money?

He has utterly humiliated, disrespected, and betrayed both you and your child.

Furious wouldn't come near it.

In your place I would be asking him to move out, stay with family or let him go to her.

After all he has clearly indicated he has zero loyalty towards you and the child you share.

Get in front of this.

He thinks he has a choice in this.

Take that away from him.

Make him face his behaviour and his dishonesty.

I am married a long time and i have had male friends, my husband has a couple of very attractive colleague friends, but that is NOT what this is.

This is not a friendship.
Don't allow him to kid you.

Giving her family money?

I would be helping him pack.

Either way he has broken your trust and I certainly would be looking at him very differently.

I am so sorry.

Oh and he isn't that nice a man.

Nice men don't humiliate their wives.

Nice men dont pay their emotional affair partner money via his parents home.

He's extremely dishonest and sneaky and he thinks he's way ahead of you.

IMO absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with you going snooping.

He has made your marriage and his behaviour the talk of your circle, too right you would be looking for confirmation.

At this point I wouldn't be be hiding what I know.

@MysteryBelle and @5128gap are on the money here.

Poor OP.

Fine behaviour if you have and open marriage and messaging someone else multiple times a day is just a part of that.

But in a committed loving marriage spending that amount of messaging at such an intimate level, is absolutely affair territory and it is only gaslighting to suggest otherwise.

I haven't RTWT, bit I have read the OPs posts. This resonates with my situation about 10 years ago. I had my own thread on here.
They are not just friends, even though they think they are. They time spent sending messages, meeting up, means they have crossed a line.
I was alerted to my Dp by my dd who said 'Daddy's obsessed with X, he keeps talking about her'. DP promised to stop texting her, and instead started emailing, and seeing her in secret. I should have been much more emphatic.
Stop it now OP, stop the baby steps of small wrong decisions.

The not just friends book was once recommended to me but I didn't take the chance to read it. Could you give me a quick summary?

@xyxygy are you the sad desperate wannabe OW?

Your friend is giving you a very clear heads up. She is a good friend. I imagine everyone is talking about this.

This is an emotional affair that is developing under the guise of ‘mates’ it might seem benign but it really is anything but. The daily intimacy and checking in is more dangerous to your marriage than a one night stand, and she is playing the long game.

In your position I would get legal advice, paperwork in order, therapy in place and then confront him - this is a massive breach of trust and lay it out, if he contacts her ever again in any capacity the marriage is over no ifs, no buts.

You can keep your friendships with the rest of the group but the sports club is finished along with any other possible meeting places that she is likely to be attending.

I don’t know if you can ever forgive him, it largely depends if he sees your point of view immediately, understands he massively over stepped and cuts her out of his life without a murmur. His reaction will tell you everything you need to know op.

Absolutely this.
Similar situation but was too trusting.
Am now long divorced but wish I had recognised the red flags at the time.
The deceit destroyed our family.
Wish I had called them out at the time.

@Thepeopleversuswork OP sounds as if she still very much wants to stay with this person and is dragging it out a bit longer than I could tolerate, as well as being comfortable with a few too many friends being involved. We don't hang with a clubby social network like that, but that is just us. To me it sounds as if OP is possibly a little worried about upsetting the social dynamic also if she were to speak out or interfere and it could blow up whether she's right or wrong. But no doubt his behaviour is wrong and speaks for itself really.

You sound like a really laid back and lovely person. Your gut is speaking to you. Trust it.x

Can I ask why you are not more firmly pulling the plug on his contact with her? Why haven’t you demanded that it stop and laid out calmly and clearly the consequences if he continues.

Watching and waiting won’t help, he will probably just carry on less often but same trajectory.

Your update is concerning because at this point you need to be strong, bullet proof and transparent. You checked his phone for good reasons, anyone would do the same. Stop doubting yourself and be much more assertive. It makes me wonder if you are worried about pushing him too far…

I agree with @Bluebells1970 .

Your husband's response is also not very comforting, so now you can only watch and wait. He's unrepentant and is not even taking this seriously, so this friendship is likely far from over.

You may also reframe this as 'they have become too friendly' instead her being too friendly. From his response he knows he's crossed the line and sounds like he'll continue doing so. It's important you now hold him accountable for his actions in encouraging this foolishness, especially now you've laid out your cards.

Hoping I'm wrong though.

Your friend is giving you a very clear heads up. She is a good friend. I imagine everyone is talking about this.

I agree. It’s probably taken some guts and a lot of internal agony to get her to the point of confronting you with this. She won’t be doing it for fun or to stir up trouble. She is trying to warn you.

OP, you have absolutely done the right thing, talking to him about it. His behaviour has been at the very least verging on inappropriate; what matters is what he does next.

If he truly values your relationship, he will take a big step back from this woman - which basically means having no contact other than whatever is required by their shared interest. He might feel flattered by her attention and all that stuff - that's normal if you've been with someone for a long time. But he needs to take a very long look at his life and the different paths it could take. If your marriage is basically good, then he would be very, very stupid to blow it up for the sake of an ego boost (and, actually, if he does, then you are well rid of him).

I'm saying this from the pov of someone who had an emotional affair which slithered into being an actual affair, btw. But my marriage was rotten to the core. If it hadn't been, I would have backed away.

My ex husband did once take me to task about my "friendship". I told him he was being ridiculous and gave him several good reasons for saying this. People who are having affairs, either emotionally or physically, do not tell the truth.

BTW, I agree with those who say that your friend is looking out for you. I don't think she's a shit stirrer. I suspect she is genuinely concerned.

I would also say when it gets to the stage that your friends are telling you - warning you - then they have already crossed a serious line. Be it flirting together, chemistry and spending time just talking together in a group when you are not there.or worse.

it was serious enough for your friend to jepodise your marrisge and friendship potentially.