She’s too friendly with him?

[Suspiciousmind1]

I’ve had this nagging feeling for a while about a woman who has slowly snuck into our social group. She’s a single mum, attractive, hard worker (a trait my DH finds attractive), has a fair bit in common with my DH, members at a similar sports club….

In January DH went on a sporting holiday, organised my his sports club and on it were several of our mutual friends. I was meant to go too but had to pull out at the last minute due to a sick child. Said girl went on the trip. There was a pretty active group what’s app (which I was on) prior to this and for a few weeks later, so I didn’t think much of their messages. the what’s app has quietened down and I’ve noticed some facebook messages coming up between them. I’m fine with this, or at least I was until recently, as I often message some of our mutual
single male friends.

Since the trip he’s now going to the club more frequently. I assumed it’s to increase his fitness as we’ve both piled on the pounds and are on a health kick. There have now been a few occasions where I’ve been at work and he’s taken our DC out for the day and they’ve randomly ‘bumped into each other.’ Over the bank holiday weekend a message with our mutual friends has been put on FB suggesting meal at our local pub. Guess who turns up too?
On the first May bank holiday we went to an event with some friends… who rocks up?

its all been at the back of my mind but we’re so easy going with things and trust each other to be friends with the opposite sex. However it’s starting to nag away with me. I took our 3 yo to the park last week and she recognised her daughter who was there with her dad. As far as I know, they’ve only met once. Then this morning I got a call from a mutual friend (member of the club, went on the trip, part of the extended friendship group) and this woman came up in conversation. She asked what I thought about their friendship, their messages, the fact that she seems to now turn up to everything. I honestly hadn’t really thought about it to that extent but others are now noticing.

So I did what I vowed I’d never do and I feel so bad for doing so, but I’ve downloaded his messenger back onto our home iPad (I’m sure the app has recently been deleted!!) and I’ve scrolled and scrolled through daily messages.
how’s your day? Where were you this morning (the club activity?) You two going to X’s party?
they’re sending selfies of themselves doing normal yet random things, photos of drinks that obviously remind them of their trip away, he’s sent a couple of photos of him during his work trip abroad.
it turns out she ‘owed’ him money (a pretty considerable amount) from their trip- he’s said it’s his treat! Apparently his first drink when they ‘party’ at an upcoming event is on her…
She was out at a birthday meal with me, he was at home with DC, she’s messaged him saying she’s out with me and I’m really good fun…
It goes on….

in fairness, it’s nothing more than the type of friendly banter you’d have with a friend, but other people are now talking. The messages are secret. Im only finding out about their little ‘random’ meets in passing. I’m now thinking he left a family party on Monday to do a site visit in a village where she’d tagged herself in a street party post. They didn’t meet up, but was he hoping to?

I don’t want to jump the gun here, I don’t want to confront him about messages that he would know I’ve read, I don’t want to say people are talking, I don’t want to be the bad guy here to shoot down their friendship because I don’t trust him…

I want to believe it’s nothing more than friendly banter but I’m really not sure now.

I need to nip it in the bud now though. I know this is how affairs start. How the hell do I handle it?

OP who was initiating the messages? If it was always her then it’s possible your DH was replying out of politeness and asking him not to reply anymore and not to socialise with her anymore is perfectly reasonable. Going forward if he can be completely transparent with you about any messages he receives and not reply and if he tells you about any times they are in the same place at the same time, then I think you can let this go and just have a laugh together at how pathetic she is trying to break up your marriage.

If he’s been initiating contact or it’s a mixture of them both then you have a problem that I don’t think is ever going to go away. The fact is he is looking for something elsewhere that you don’t offer, if that’s just simply the excitement of something new then more fool him and you are better off without him.

It doesn't really matter if she initiated the messages or not - if so, he is responding to them and he is clearly engaging in an emotional affair. He is an adult. He knows right from wrong.

I wish the narrative about the obsessed other woman would stop and people would focus on the person who is the blame here - the OP's husband.

He's said he may have taken it too far and may be out of order (or words to that effect) to placate the OP.

For what it's worth, I would be livid if my partner was doing this. Constant communication and meeting up creates an intimacy that should be reserved for the person you're in a relationship with. I wouldn't care to blame the other woman, all blame would be at his feet.

Strange how he didn't tell you he'd give her some money, he obviously knows he's doing something wrong OP or he'd include you in it.

I agree with Philautia. I think there were mitigating factors in my defence, but the person who bears the responsibility is the person who is married to someone else.

If she keeps having affairs, how's she ever going to find happiness I wonder.

You shouldn't need to do anything.

If your partner/husband wants to have an affair and take a chance on ruining your relationship then he's not worth it is he?

LOL, sure. I'm one of the few not baying for his head on a platter, so I must be the OW.

At least I've got a decent picture of how AIBU became the favoured haunt of so many bitter divorce-mongers - y'all spread it to everyone you can.

I am not a divorce advocate and wouldn’t say it was my place to advise, but an emotional affair will devastate a marriage and trust. So what do you expect pp to say?

The daily intimacy and checking in is more dangerous to your marriage than a one night stand, and she is playing the long game.
This several times over.
Whilst it wouldn't be ok to have a few too many to drink and a one night stand, the level of betrayal from both friend and spouse to weave their web under everyone's nose is worse.

As I've said several times through the thread...I advocated carefully thinking through the implications of every course of action open to her (not just the ones that satisfy her confirmation bias) before doing anything. She's now put herself in a position where it's impossible for her to resolve her suspicions, and it's impossible for her husband to prove that he had no ill intent. On top of that, she now has to keep the fact that she was snooping on him a secret for the rest of the marriage.

The possible outcomes at this point have been reduced to two: she either learns to live with the fact that she'll never trust him again, or divorce (or both, of course). I've seen it so many times it's unhealthy, and there is nothing that can be done to avoid one of those two now - the only thing I can advise is looking up portrait photographers in anticipation of getting a Tinder account ready on the back burner, for when one of them inevitably gets tired of the simmering resentment.

I’m couldn’t live like that OP. He is prioritising her over you. If he wasn’t willing to go no contact with her and block her number then I’d be asking him to leave.

Exactly this. Too many blaming the woman here when it’s the DH engaging in this.

OP, if it turns out that you did manage to abort the affair before it took off, does that make you feel any better about it?

If the only reason he doesn't cheat on you is because you stopped it, then surely that's nearly as bad. His moral compass and love for you and your family wasn't enough to stop him, just the reality of being found out.

I'm not saying LTB, but maybe you need to take a big step back, evaluate if this is enough for you and look at couples counselling maybe?

Clearly they probably fancy each other. Their level of contact is heavy.

The questions are:
Would you consider it an emotional affair?
How upset would you be if he fancied her but had no interest in acting on it?

I am a huge LTB fan but I think in this case, my gut says they wont cross the line so waiting it out might be an option.

In the meantime perhaps pull away from the group and start making a new network just in case the shit hits the fan because while morally everyone should side woth you, people like the oath I'd least resistance and you will likely be the one at home with the kids if they do set up shop together.

Perhaps set up a weekend away with her and her husband and the kids. It means you can have a new group WhatsApp, make new memories to laugh about and push the chat into a public zone. If the private messages carry on or they are not keen to do a weekend away I think that says a lot.

My advice is basically watch and wait. Say nothing yet. Once you play your hand you have lost your trump card.

Op has not reduced the options in their marriage, dh reduced their options the moment he stepped over that boundary and choose to engage and develop a relationship outside of his marriage!

It is staggering the level of blame you are meting out to the innocent victim in this situation.

There are plenty of opportunities dh can take to save their relationship. Book couples counselling, invest time, love and effort into his wife, cut contact with random women, accept he has made a mistake, genuinely, and they can move on. The ball is in the court of the dh to repair the damage he has done and it will be up to op if it’s sufficient to earn back her trust.

To me this isn’t a question of will or won’t they divorce, but in ops position I would be questioning who he even is as a person, because his behaviour really doesn’t match a loving, committed husband does it? Op deserves to feel safe, secure, loved and valued in her marriage.

See, the problem is that you're viewing it through the lens of your own bias - try seeing it from the perspective of a husband who just thought he was making a friend.

Sure, there's the argument that he must have known what he was doing, and therefore must have had ulterior motives, but that requires an initial assumption based on no knowledge of the man beyond the starting point given to us by the OP...which has gradually changed since the beginning of the thread.

MN habit (particularly in AIBU) is to start from the assumption that the husband is a womanising liar devoid of morality, but if you set that to one side for a moment of hypothesis...a nice guy who's made a friend and has absolutely no intention of stepping outside his marriage would also fit all of his behaviour (and the fact that all of the investigation and snooping has turned up absolutely nothing). Even if you must assign blame and turn this into a soap opera plot, it would fit with the friend targeting that same nice guy...which would make him a victim too. Remember, guys are (generally) dumb when it comes to recognising social signals and situations, whereas women are (generally) super-sensitive to anything that looks like a threat.

Now put yourself in that nice guy's shoes. You've done nothing wrong, you thought you were in a trusting, committed marriage from both sides, and now you find out that your wife's been spying on your messages, deciding what to do in her marriage based on talking to everybody but you (including possibly the most dramatic burn-him forum on the planet), kept the fact that other people are talking about you a secret from you, and then hit you with accusations of having an affair.

Do you think that might shake your confidence in what you thought was a solid marriage? Do you think you might ask why your wife didn't come to you when it first came to her attention? Do you think you could be a bit upset at the fact that your world's been turned upside down on two fronts?

Has he agreed to stop contact with her, if not he needs to. A cool hello at gatherings, that's all that's needed

I don't think there's any point giving XYetc any more fodder, he's made what he thinks quite clear.

How are things today OP?

Personally I would be firmer with your husband (if it were my husband)
something like

“We have a three year old and I will consider your efforts and energy that you put into another woman as putting our daughters home/family and security at risk. That will be your choice. Your energies should be going into this family. If you wanted to chase other women you should not have chose to have a child. If you continue to make a fool of me it will be over between us and our family will become co-parenting. Think about what you want!”

It’s not good enough that you should be waiting to see what happens between them. He should be making efforts trying to make it up to you - the feelings that his behaviour has caused you to feel insecure and caused local gosssip. It’s not about telling him what contact he can have - it’s about making you feel like his cherished wife and her feel like a lady from the sports club - how does he think he should go about that? He doesn’t hold all the cards -the ball is in your court also. If what is important here is his relationship with this woman he should pack his bags.

Interesting. Is misgendering someone a common passive-aggressive move on here?

Any update OP?

I really feel for you. It’s awful when your instinct tells you something and yet you are powerless to do anything.
you can only trust your husband to do the right thing but waiting around to see if he does is horrendous.
I personally couldn’t cope with the friendship they have. It seems too deep, sending selfies, the secrecy etc..too much.
i am female and have had a male best friend for 30 years. We do not send selfies. We have conversations both with our partners present or alone but none of which is secret in anyway. And that is exactly how it should be to make sure everyone’s feelings are taken in consideration appropriately. I would never risk my partners feelings being hurt just as he wouldn’t ask me to drop my friendship just because he is male.

She’s had affairs before. Is this really a person he wants to be “good friends” with, behind his wife’s back?

I’d let him know you feel uncomfortable with it but not in an accusatory way. Say you love him and know other women probably like him. You’d hate to lose him. BUT if he ever has an affair you would have to leave as you respect yourself too much to live that way.

I'd also be weary about the money thing....

^^ This feels wise to me.

Errr no.
Shes 15 years younger. Almost young enough to be his child. How much can they have in common that “goes way back”?
She’s had affairs before.
He’s tempted. He’s allowing himself to dream. Perhaps not doing anything about it atm, just seeing how things might go.