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Original poster

She’s too friendly with him?

272 replies

Suspiciousmind1 · 10/05/2023 11:34

I’ve had this nagging feeling for a while about a woman who has slowly snuck into our social group. She’s a single mum, attractive, hard worker (a trait my DH finds attractive), has a fair bit in common with my DH, members at a similar sports club….

In January DH went on a sporting holiday, organised my his sports club and on it were several of our mutual friends. I was meant to go too but had to pull out at the last minute due to a sick child. Said girl went on the trip. There was a pretty active group what’s app (which I was on) prior to this and for a few weeks later, so I didn’t think much of their messages. the what’s app has quietened down and I’ve noticed some facebook messages coming up between them. I’m fine with this, or at least I was until recently, as I often message some of our mutual
single male friends.

Since the trip he’s now going to the club more frequently. I assumed it’s to increase his fitness as we’ve both piled on the pounds and are on a health kick. There have now been a few occasions where I’ve been at work and he’s taken our DC out for the day and they’ve randomly ‘bumped into each other.’ Over the bank holiday weekend a message with our mutual friends has been put on FB suggesting meal at our local pub. Guess who turns up too?
On the first May bank holiday we went to an event with some friends… who rocks up?

its all been at the back of my mind but we’re so easy going with things and trust each other to be friends with the opposite sex. However it’s starting to nag away with me. I took our 3 yo to the park last week and she recognised her daughter who was there with her dad. As far as I know, they’ve only met once. Then this morning I got a call from a mutual friend (member of the club, went on the trip, part of the extended friendship group) and this woman came up in conversation. She asked what I thought about their friendship, their messages, the fact that she seems to now turn up to everything. I honestly hadn’t really thought about it to that extent but others are now noticing.

So I did what I vowed I’d never do and I feel so bad for doing so, but I’ve downloaded his messenger back onto our home iPad (I’m sure the app has recently been deleted!!) and I’ve scrolled and scrolled through daily messages.
how’s your day? Where were you this morning (the club activity?) You two going to X’s party?
they’re sending selfies of themselves doing normal yet random things, photos of drinks that obviously remind them of their trip away, he’s sent a couple of photos of him during his work trip abroad.
it turns out she ‘owed’ him money (a pretty considerable amount) from their trip- he’s said it’s his treat! Apparently his first drink when they ‘party’ at an upcoming event is on her…
She was out at a birthday meal with me, he was at home with DC, she’s messaged him saying she’s out with me and I’m really good fun…
It goes on….

in fairness, it’s nothing more than the type of friendly banter you’d have with a friend, but other people are now talking. The messages are secret. Im only finding out about their little ‘random’ meets in passing. I’m now thinking he left a family party on Monday to do a site visit in a village where she’d tagged herself in a street party post. They didn’t meet up, but was he hoping to?

I don’t want to jump the gun here, I don’t want to confront him about messages that he would know I’ve read, I don’t want to say people are talking, I don’t want to be the bad guy here to shoot down their friendship because I don’t trust him…

I want to believe it’s nothing more than friendly banter but I’m really not sure now.

I need to nip it in the bud now though. I know this is how affairs start. How the hell do I handle it?

OP posts:
xyxygy · 10/05/2023 14:46

AhNowTed · 10/05/2023 14:30

The usual victim blaming going on 🙄.

I would absolutely look through his messages in her shoes.

And my DH and I have zero access to each others phones and value our privacy. But we also have nothing to hide.

Well handled OP.

That's the funny thing, isn't it?

She's been through his messages and found nothing. She's questioned him about the theme park trip, and everything stacks up. She's questioned him about the street party, and he's shown her the client email behind it.

She asked to see the messages, and he quite rightly complained on the grounds that she should trust him, but showed her anyway.

There is literally no smoking gun here, beyond what other people are saying - and, if those people are anything like Mumsnet denizens, they'll be jumping to conclusions at the first sign that a man and a woman might be friends outside marriage.

If he has something to hide, where is the actual evidence of it?

And...if, as the actual evidence points to, there is nothing to hide, then who's the victim? The one who's had (from their perspective) an innocent friendship and yet been snooped on and lied to about it (actual facts we know), or the one who developed suspicions on the basis of rumours?

But this was the point I was trying to make earlier. He's answered every one of her questions with actual evidence that those events were nothing to do with having an affair, and yet OP still says "we've got nowhere with this". It's impossible for him to prove that he's not having an affair, and she's operating on the presumption that he is with no evidence. That's a situation that can never be resolved - he can't prove a negative, and she doesn't need proof to continue suspecting him. It's very likely a doomed relationship.

I give it a year, max. And that's without her telling him that she installed his messenger app on the tablet so she could read through his chats.

Pluvia · 10/05/2023 14:47

She's been through his messages and found nothing.

He's agreed that he's involved in an emotional affair, and that's good reason for many people to file for divorce.

Suzannargh · 10/05/2023 14:47

Suspiciousmind1 · 10/05/2023 14:01

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

He’s working from home this afternoon so I’ve confronted him and we’ve had a long chat. I genuinely don’t think he realised how much he was over stepping the mark, but he has admitted that other people probably do perceive their ‘friendship’ to be noticeable.

I didn’t mention the messages (and I still feel I’ve irreversibly crossed a line here) but said I’ve had something on my mind for a while and that other people are noticing. I mentioned the trip with the children to the theme park again (having read messages about it) and what he says does tie in with his texts and also the reality of the situation. I asked him why he left a bbq on Monday to go to a village with a street party that she might be at and he said he wondered why I acted so surprised at the time. Apparently his client had emailed him that afternoon about resolving an issue before a surveyor attended the site the next morning and then showed me the email….

i asked him if it’s just friendship when they’re at the club, out socially with our group or more. He admitted they have a private message thread (the one I read) and he now feels that perhaps he’s gone too far with that. I asked what was on it- he said general messages about his parents’ work (true), the ‘odd’ random message, ‘stuff’ about kids, their mutual hobby… but agreed that they message too much. He said it was innocent- but got quite funny when I asked to see the thread. Reluctantly he showed me but very much cherry picked what he read allowed. Said that shouldn’t have to read the messages myself because he wouldn’t ask the same of me. Big difference- I have nothing to hide on my phone! I don’t send selfies to married men!

I can tell by his reaction now that he knows that he’s gone too far and probably feels somewhat busted that our friends have noticed. He’s also told me that DH of our friend ‘jokingly’ asked if he was meeting up with this woman on that first bank holiday. It’s clear more and more people can see what’s going on. It might be innocent, it might not be going anywhere but for everyone that’s noticed and mentioned it to be there’s a heap of others that have. Even people I don’t know. It’s pretty humiliating.

he says he doesn’t find her attractive but they get on. They have things to talk about- I’d agree they probably have more in common than him and I do. They have mutual friends from some years back, in circles that I don’t mix. I know who she’s had her affairs with and he ticks all the boxes- he’s 15 years older, attractive, runs a successful business, sporty, drives the cars, wears the clothes, charismatic…. I don’t need to go on.

we haven’t really got anywhere with this. He says he was ‘probably’ out of order and will keep what I’ve said in mind but it’s just friendship.

I’m sure the majority of it is but as many of you have said, he’s devoting time and headspace by taking time out of his day to message her. If I hadn’t confronted him, who knows where this would take us in a few months time.

This isn’t the end of the issue by any means. I think all I can do now is watch and wait. He knows how I feel, how other people see it and how I view it- an emotional affair. I guess it’s up to him now.

Wow, he really has flipped it on you. You were right not to reveal you know about the messages, because now you can monitor his emotional affair progressing…

Lamelie · 10/05/2023 14:49

Liorae · 10/05/2023 11:42

Then this morning I got a call from a mutual friend (member of the club, went on the trip, part of the extended friendship group) and this woman came up in conversation. She asked what I thought about their friendship, their messages, the fact that she seems to now turn up to everything. I honestly hadn’t really thought about it to that extent but others are now noticing.
That sounds to me like your mutual friend is shit stirring.

Or giving you the heads up that something is about to or has started

EvelynKatie · 10/05/2023 14:52

Suspiciousmind1 · 10/05/2023 14:01

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

He’s working from home this afternoon so I’ve confronted him and we’ve had a long chat. I genuinely don’t think he realised how much he was over stepping the mark, but he has admitted that other people probably do perceive their ‘friendship’ to be noticeable.

I didn’t mention the messages (and I still feel I’ve irreversibly crossed a line here) but said I’ve had something on my mind for a while and that other people are noticing. I mentioned the trip with the children to the theme park again (having read messages about it) and what he says does tie in with his texts and also the reality of the situation. I asked him why he left a bbq on Monday to go to a village with a street party that she might be at and he said he wondered why I acted so surprised at the time. Apparently his client had emailed him that afternoon about resolving an issue before a surveyor attended the site the next morning and then showed me the email….

i asked him if it’s just friendship when they’re at the club, out socially with our group or more. He admitted they have a private message thread (the one I read) and he now feels that perhaps he’s gone too far with that. I asked what was on it- he said general messages about his parents’ work (true), the ‘odd’ random message, ‘stuff’ about kids, their mutual hobby… but agreed that they message too much. He said it was innocent- but got quite funny when I asked to see the thread. Reluctantly he showed me but very much cherry picked what he read allowed. Said that shouldn’t have to read the messages myself because he wouldn’t ask the same of me. Big difference- I have nothing to hide on my phone! I don’t send selfies to married men!

I can tell by his reaction now that he knows that he’s gone too far and probably feels somewhat busted that our friends have noticed. He’s also told me that DH of our friend ‘jokingly’ asked if he was meeting up with this woman on that first bank holiday. It’s clear more and more people can see what’s going on. It might be innocent, it might not be going anywhere but for everyone that’s noticed and mentioned it to be there’s a heap of others that have. Even people I don’t know. It’s pretty humiliating.

he says he doesn’t find her attractive but they get on. They have things to talk about- I’d agree they probably have more in common than him and I do. They have mutual friends from some years back, in circles that I don’t mix. I know who she’s had her affairs with and he ticks all the boxes- he’s 15 years older, attractive, runs a successful business, sporty, drives the cars, wears the clothes, charismatic…. I don’t need to go on.

we haven’t really got anywhere with this. He says he was ‘probably’ out of order and will keep what I’ve said in mind but it’s just friendship.

I’m sure the majority of it is but as many of you have said, he’s devoting time and headspace by taking time out of his day to message her. If I hadn’t confronted him, who knows where this would take us in a few months time.

This isn’t the end of the issue by any means. I think all I can do now is watch and wait. He knows how I feel, how other people see it and how I view it- an emotional affair. I guess it’s up to him now.

Had an extremely similar convo with my ex-DH when a similar situation was happening.
Keep an eye on it going forward. Ensure it does seem he is pulling back from her, and not actually just trying to keep it more secretive from you, meaning the 'friendship' then grows into something more. Ultimately you can't stop him from getting into an emotional affair, but you need to be aware so you can be prepared for an end point to your marriage.

Miri13 · 10/05/2023 14:53

Gut feelings are there for a reason….

Jazzyjezzabelle · 10/05/2023 14:54

Can I ask how did she come up in conversation with Your friend who asked how you felt . Did you raise it? Honestly?

I think you are jealous and insecure as they are so close. That’s understandable. I don’t think he’s having an affair, at all, but I think uou don’t trust him and think he might as you perceive her to be attractive and have a lot of qualities you find desirable .

Jazzyjezzabelle · 10/05/2023 14:56

Miri13 · 10/05/2023 14:53

Gut feelings are there for a reason….

I don’t understand posts like this, it’s like the poster doesn’t think anxiety, paranoia, jealousy, distrust, insecurity, are a thing, it’s nonesense. Gut feelings are not so simple and can be a sign of issues you personally have.

5128gap · 10/05/2023 14:58

xyxygy · 10/05/2023 14:09

we haven’t really got anywhere with this. He says he was ‘probably’ out of order and will keep what I’ve said in mind but it’s just friendship.

I’m sure the majority of it is but as many of you have said, he’s devoting time and headspace by taking time out of his day to message her. If I hadn’t confronted him, who knows where this would take us in a few months time.

C'mon, surely you must see how this sounds? He's not even allowed to message people now, because any messages at all to anyone require both time and headspace.

And you're still not even considering being honest with him about your own behaviour - you know you've irretrievably crossed a line there, and you're cool with lying to him about it because it put him on the back foot in the discussion and put you in the driving seat.

Can you see how deceitful and manipulative that is?

Lol. Nice try! Because taking two minutes to send a message to your mate, is exactly the same as messaging someone multiple times a day, every day, isn't it?
And the OP doing something deceitful is entirely irrelevant to his behaviour with this woman. I'm sure it's lovely when people confess to snooping though, as all of a sudden we can bury the other person's bad behaviour under that and have a new villain of the piece.
Like I say, nice try, but its an old technique now and fortunately most people see through it.

EvelynKatie · 10/05/2023 15:00

I think some other posters won't have been in this situation before OP, so ignore anyone calling you jealous, paranoid etc.
I'm the most trusting person ever and was with my ex-DH for many years. This also means you just know when something is changing... something isn't quite right.... a 'friendship' that's getting a bit too much and personal... don't ignore those feelings. I was too trusting and tried to tell myself I was just being paranoid, but I should never have ignored my gut feelings about my own partner who I had been with for many years.

mydoghasanattitude · 10/05/2023 15:01

I'd be very concerned, and that's before you mentioned that she's actually had multiple affairs before and clearly doesn't/didn't respect marriage vows. People make mistakes and can change, but I'm not willing to risk my marriage on the chance that she's turned over a new leaf.

I'd tell DH my concerns and expect him to limit their interactions from now on out of respect for my feelings, if nothing else.

Jazzyjezzabelle · 10/05/2023 15:02

EvelynKatie · 10/05/2023 15:00

I think some other posters won't have been in this situation before OP, so ignore anyone calling you jealous, paranoid etc.
I'm the most trusting person ever and was with my ex-DH for many years. This also means you just know when something is changing... something isn't quite right.... a 'friendship' that's getting a bit too much and personal... don't ignore those feelings. I was too trusting and tried to tell myself I was just being paranoid, but I should never have ignored my gut feelings about my own partner who I had been with for many years.

Ignore everyone but me me me.

seriously?

EvelynKatie · 10/05/2023 15:03

Jazzyjezzabelle · 10/05/2023 15:02

Ignore everyone but me me me.

seriously?

Show quote history

Ignore only the people dimissing OP as jealous and paranoid etc. The people saying so have likely never been in this situation so won't understand. I would have been someone calling the OP jealous etc. until I experienced the same.

xyxygy · 10/05/2023 15:04

5128gap · 10/05/2023 14:58

Lol. Nice try! Because taking two minutes to send a message to your mate, is exactly the same as messaging someone multiple times a day, every day, isn't it?
And the OP doing something deceitful is entirely irrelevant to his behaviour with this woman. I'm sure it's lovely when people confess to snooping though, as all of a sudden we can bury the other person's bad behaviour under that and have a new villain of the piece.
Like I say, nice try, but its an old technique now and fortunately most people see through it.

Show quote history

It's not a technique at all. It's just an expectation of honesty from both parties (as I expect in my own marriage).

He's answered every one of her suspicions with evidence, and agreed to change things up to calm her suspicions, and there is no evidence of an affair. Where is the "bad behaviour"?

He's done everything that's expected of him thus far (from the point that it was brought to his attention). All that remains is for OP to be honest with him.

If not, then the lies and suspicion will continue. Do you think that's a solid basis for a marriage?

pillsthrillsandbellyache · 10/05/2023 15:06

Ignore the posters who are still finding fault with you OP even after your most recent update. There are a few people on here who do it for shits and giggles. Not one emotionally intelligent person will read this thread and find you to blame in any way.
I'm really sorry you are going through this OP, the trust has been broken and that's shit. All you can do is keep an eye out and hope he decides to do the right thing by his wife and children. You need to have a think about what your line in the sand will be though. Dont assume now it's in the open he will stop. He may push it. Dont let them trample over your boundaries

5128gap · 10/05/2023 15:06

Jazzyjezzabelle · 10/05/2023 14:54

Can I ask how did she come up in conversation with Your friend who asked how you felt . Did you raise it? Honestly?

I think you are jealous and insecure as they are so close. That’s understandable. I don’t think he’s having an affair, at all, but I think uou don’t trust him and think he might as you perceive her to be attractive and have a lot of qualities you find desirable .

If you truly believe this, I think you might benefit from being a little less trusting. If someone has managed to convince you to think that any behaviour that makes you uncomfortable must be rooted in your own insecurity and your jealousy of people who have 'qualities you find desirable', then you've been had.

Swingstotheleftslidetotheright · 10/05/2023 15:07

xyxygy · 10/05/2023 15:04

It's not a technique at all. It's just an expectation of honesty from both parties (as I expect in my own marriage).

He's answered every one of her suspicions with evidence, and agreed to change things up to calm her suspicions, and there is no evidence of an affair. Where is the "bad behaviour"?

He's done everything that's expected of him thus far (from the point that it was brought to his attention). All that remains is for OP to be honest with him.

If not, then the lies and suspicion will continue. Do you think that's a solid basis for a marriage?

Show quote history

This. He's acknowledged her feelings, and plans on changing his behaviour so it's now down to the OP to give him a fair chance. Honesty on both sides is called for here (and hoping the daily fail doesn't pick this up before then!)

DrManhattan · 10/05/2023 15:16

It feels dodgy because that's what it is.
Most people can tell when there is more to a relationship so don't feel bad for trusting your own instincts. I'd bin him off now, his head has been turned and you will become the villain in all of this.

QueenBitch666 · 10/05/2023 15:25

newtb · 10/05/2023 12:54

I think I'd also be concerned about him lending her money. How much was it, and why isn't it being repaid?

I thought that was very suspect myself. I'd be interested to know how as he's 'treated' her and doesn't want repaying

QueenBitch666 · 10/05/2023 15:26

Dixiechickonhols · 10/05/2023 13:05

The giving money is a huge thing if it’s from joint account and not told her. It sounds like a substantial amount and should have been discussed.

This 👆

SparklyBlackKitten · 10/05/2023 15:27

Imagine what kind of things they done at their little holiday. And all their other meet ups. Considering that even your shared friends picked up on it....

The fact he doesnt let you read it all (even though you did already. But you only read his WhatsApp.... they would have been using more than one platform!) Says "he doesnt find her attractive " the list goes on.

You dont trust him. Because your gut knows you cant. They have more in common together than you have with your dh
And thats not the worst. The worst is he lies about her. And is openly into her in front of his own friends....

She is not the problem. Your sneaky dh is.

HowcanIgetoutofthisalive · 10/05/2023 15:29

I wonder why he was cagey about showing you the full thread of messages? Is it because he clearly knows he's over stepped the line and feared you'd catch him out. He obviously feels that there is something in the thread that would piss you off and out him.

xyxygy · 10/05/2023 15:31

HowcanIgetoutofthisalive · 10/05/2023 15:29

I wonder why he was cagey about showing you the full thread of messages? Is it because he clearly knows he's over stepped the line and feared you'd catch him out. He obviously feels that there is something in the thread that would piss you off and out him.

Except...she's already read the whole thing, and there was nothing there.

DucksNewburyport · 10/05/2023 15:34

Well done OP - sounds like you had a good chat and hopefully this will make him think a bit. Really hope it all works out ok.

Throwncrumbs · 10/05/2023 15:36

xyxygy · 10/05/2023 14:46

That's the funny thing, isn't it?

She's been through his messages and found nothing. She's questioned him about the theme park trip, and everything stacks up. She's questioned him about the street party, and he's shown her the client email behind it.

She asked to see the messages, and he quite rightly complained on the grounds that she should trust him, but showed her anyway.

There is literally no smoking gun here, beyond what other people are saying - and, if those people are anything like Mumsnet denizens, they'll be jumping to conclusions at the first sign that a man and a woman might be friends outside marriage.

If he has something to hide, where is the actual evidence of it?

And...if, as the actual evidence points to, there is nothing to hide, then who's the victim? The one who's had (from their perspective) an innocent friendship and yet been snooped on and lied to about it (actual facts we know), or the one who developed suspicions on the basis of rumours?

But this was the point I was trying to make earlier. He's answered every one of her questions with actual evidence that those events were nothing to do with having an affair, and yet OP still says "we've got nowhere with this". It's impossible for him to prove that he's not having an affair, and she's operating on the presumption that he is with no evidence. That's a situation that can never be resolved - he can't prove a negative, and she doesn't need proof to continue suspecting him. It's very likely a doomed relationship.

I give it a year, max. And that's without her telling him that she installed his messenger app on the tablet so she could read through his chats.

Show quote history

Nothing to hide AT THE MOMENT…she’s nipping it in the bud before it escalates. Having been in the situation it’s shitty of him to take his kids out with her, meet up with her and lend money to her…things that a family should do, not some woman on the outside trying to be on the inside.