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Arrested for holding a banner - can't ruin a big day, can we... PART 2

209 replies

vera99 · 09/05/2023 13:32

A continuation of the debate started at https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4800317-arrested-for-holding-a-banner-cant-ruin-a-big-day-can-we?page=39&reply=126045871

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
JenniferBooth · 10/05/2023 14:06

Nevile repeating the rhetoric about rape alarms.

DuncinToffee · 10/05/2023 14:13

Whaeanui · 10/05/2023 13:29

There is going to be an inquiry in the Commons.

Good.

Honestly after the report into the Mets revolting misogyny and the hundreds of cases that will take years to get through of officers who have committed offences against women, we now have this! The Met is not fit for purpose. At all.

Probably not for this thread but the Met have issued another apology today

https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1656231614857265156?s=20

We have apologised to the family of Daniel Morgan after documents were found.

Some of these should have been disclosed to the inquiry into his murder.

We are working with others to fully understand the impact.

You can read more here

JenniferBooth · 10/05/2023 14:15

JHB interviewing ex officer Peter Bleksley who criticises the double standard two tier policing of the Met.

https://twitter.com/TalkTV/status/1656190311196925955?s=20

https://twitter.com/TalkTV/status/1656190311196925955?s=20

vera99 · 10/05/2023 14:28

cakeorwine · 10/05/2023 13:28

I am sure that the security services are monitoring the online response to this, looking at the tweets and who's liked them, and have the faces of the protestors on profile - and that's all the protestors.

There is going to be an inquiry in the Commons.

Anti-monarchy arrests at coronation to be scrutinised by MPs | Protest | The Guardian

I think you're right, mass data gathering and facial recognition are a real game changer. You get stopped at a station on the way to a protest, you get stopped and searched and a little chat, all intended to deter most people who aren't deeply invested. It really is deeply sinister as to the tools they now have. To which the majority of people will no doubt say good. If you haven't done something then you have nothing to fear....

OP posts:
Crustsamongus · 10/05/2023 15:05

vera99 · 10/05/2023 14:28

I think you're right, mass data gathering and facial recognition are a real game changer. You get stopped at a station on the way to a protest, you get stopped and searched and a little chat, all intended to deter most people who aren't deeply invested. It really is deeply sinister as to the tools they now have. To which the majority of people will no doubt say good. If you haven't done something then you have nothing to fear....

"If you've got nothing to hide then you've got nothing to fear" is widely attributed to Goebbels, which tells you all you need to know about how those using it to justify mass surveillance view individual rights and freedoms...

(Apologies for proving Godwin's Law... I would also like to point out I am not calling anyone a nazi!)

vera99 · 10/05/2023 15:12

In the new world they don't need snitches any more like Nazi Germany your phone and all the data it produces is all they need. China have taken it one step further with social credit to determine what is a good citizen and therefore have access to state services. Republicans would be red flagged for sure.

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 10/05/2023 16:09

The women's safety team was released without charges, Times article attached to tweet

https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/1656204235405402112?s=20
Another group of innocent people arrested before Coronation will face no charges. They were volunteers who help women stay safe at night.

cakeorwine · 10/05/2023 17:17

Going to a protest?
Now you can be stopped on the way and searched.
If they find anything on you or in your car / bike that they believe could be used to lock on, they could arrest you.
They can seize your phone and look for any evidence in there. That could take a long time so you might be released on bail whilst your phone is searched.

And the Government doesn't think this will reduce people who want to protest?

If you are happy with this, remember there could be a time when you want to protest.

cakeorwine · 10/05/2023 17:27

I think this could be tested in "those pesky European Courts"

Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association | Equality and Human Rights Commission (equalityhumanrights.com)

Interesting case - In August 2010, the English Defence League (EDL) planned a protest in Bradford. A counter demonstration by Unite Against Fascism was also planned. Some local people wanted the protest banned and there were concerns about a repeat of the violent clashes that had happened at previous EDL events. West Yorkshire Police had a duty to protect the protest unless there was clear evidence that violence would occur. They examined the human rights aspect of the situation and talked to local people, in particular the Muslim community, about the right to peaceful protest. After this explanation the community realised that the police had to allow the protest. Community groups worked with the police to persuade young people not to get involved in criminal activity on the day.

And yet Republicans are being arrested when Charles appears because they might get beaten up.

Being a republican in Britain used to be perfectly respectable. So why are people now getting arrested for it? | Zoe Williams | The Guardian

People Are Calling Out The Police For Their Attitude To Anti-Monarchy Protesters | HuffPost UK News (huffingtonpost.co.uk)

Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association | Equality and Human Rights Commission

Freedom of assembly and association protects your right to protest by holding meetings and demonstrations with other people. You also have the right to form and be part of a trade union and political party.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-11-freedom-assembly-and-association

cakeorwine · 10/05/2023 20:49

Interesting article

‘I was arrested at the Coronation – and have now made some unlikely allies’ (msn.com)

"Turnbull does not fit the stereotype of a republican protester. He was educated at Canford, a boarding school in Dorset, before studying theology at Oxford (he is also a friend: it was surprising, to say the least, to see him in handcuffs on the BBC News up on the big screens at The Telegraph). Although his politics have always been left of centre, he is far from the stereotypical image of the crusty, glued-to-the-road activist."

"“It’s one thing to deny people the right to protest, it’s another to put them in discomfort,” he says. “The prospect of a day in the cell would stop someone going to a protest, which means protests become only people prepared to put their body, minds and time on the line. If that becomes what protest is, you’ll only get the people who fetishise it, where protest needs people like me who are not martyrs, who aren’t brave, who would rather be in the pub than a police cell. You need those people able to protest too."

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/music/i-was-arrested-at-the-coronation-and-have-now-made-some-unlikely-allies/ar-AA1aXsNd?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4d6f1c94c6274093b6637678cf949b9b&ei=8

cakeorwine · 10/05/2023 20:51

"“Coming out of the police station, and seeing Brendan O’Neill, someone who I fundamentally disagree with on so many things, defending me, was really important,” Turnbull says. “It drew a line in the sand, which protected me from the worst of the attacks from the Right. I’m not a dangerous leftist radical. I’ve never done this stuff before, it’s not really my thing. But we need to find a way as a country to stand up for each other and agree that there are some things, like protesting and wrongful arrest, that are sacrosanct and go across lines of political disagreement.” "

Interesting - there have been people and commentators across the political spectrum who are concerned about this.

Whaeanui · 10/05/2023 20:53

It’s one thing to deny people the right to protest, it’s another to put them in discomfort,” he says. “The prospect of a day in the cell would stop someone going to a protest, which means protests become only people prepared to put their body, minds and time on the line. If that becomes what protest is, you’ll only get the people who fetishise it, where protest needs people like me who are not martyrs, who aren’t brave, who would rather be in the pub than a police cell. You need those people able to protest too."

Yes! My goodness. I’ve been to lots of peaceful protests all my life! I definitely wouldn’t want to go if I thought they would arrest me for nothing.

vera99 · 10/05/2023 21:24

Republic
2h
Our crowdfunder has now raised almost £90,000 and we're getting tens of thousands of pounds of other donations, sales and members fees coming through, with thousands joining Republic for the first time. Thank you!
#NotMyKing
"https://crowdfunder.co.uk/p/notmyking"

Charles is #NotMyKing. The time to speak up is now

Republic wants to use the coronation in 2023 as a launchpad to win a dramatic shift in public opinion.

https://crowdfunder.co.uk/p/notmyking

OP posts:
Whaeanui · 10/05/2023 21:31

Oh wow this is just making them more known and the campaign more popular 🤦🏾‍♀️😬😂

Roussette · 10/05/2023 21:32

Such good news. No doubt they need it.

Whaeanui · 10/05/2023 21:36

I just tried to donate but when it went to payment it said amount pending on Apple Pay. Don’t like that, why would that happen?

Roussette · 10/05/2023 21:43

Whaeanui · 10/05/2023 21:36

I just tried to donate but when it went to payment it said amount pending on Apple Pay. Don’t like that, why would that happen?

Not sure. I joined for a year (have done before not on a rolling membershiip) and it went through on Mastercard

Whaeanui · 10/05/2023 21:51

Oh I tried the crowdfunder. Will look into it

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/05/2023 21:59

Here's the link to donate via their site, Whaeanui:

https://republic.fundraise.tech/campaign?code=donation

Whaeanui · 10/05/2023 22:04

Thank you! @Puzzledandpissedoff

cakeorwine · 10/05/2023 22:04

Whaeanui · 10/05/2023 20:53

It’s one thing to deny people the right to protest, it’s another to put them in discomfort,” he says. “The prospect of a day in the cell would stop someone going to a protest, which means protests become only people prepared to put their body, minds and time on the line. If that becomes what protest is, you’ll only get the people who fetishise it, where protest needs people like me who are not martyrs, who aren’t brave, who would rather be in the pub than a police cell. You need those people able to protest too."

Yes! My goodness. I’ve been to lots of peaceful protests all my life! I definitely wouldn’t want to go if I thought they would arrest me for nothing.

I hope this point is made on Question Time and in other debates.

All I've heard is politicians say that it's a good thing the police took action, the Coronation went smoothly etc

Only a few have raised this point :

What effect do you think arresting people who were planning on attending a peaceful protest will have on others who want to attend a peaceful protest? How do you know if you are going to be arrested either on the way or at a peaceful protest?

Whaeanui · 10/05/2023 22:05

Yes I hope so too @cakeorwine

NeverMyKing · 10/05/2023 22:11

@Whaeanui totally agree. I’ve been to many protests but would be really scared to go if I thought I was going to be arrested - not to mention the implication it might have with my employers. It’s a terrifying deterrent.

vera99 · 11/05/2023 09:35

The Speccie has charitably printed an article from one of the ever so reasonable Republic protestors who gives an inside account of being politely but firmly prevented from raising his placard.

And here's an actual nicking in progress (buy a JST one !).
https://twitter.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1656277047097061377

Harvey Woolfe
What’s the real reason police disrupted our anti-monarchy protest?
10 May 2023, 8:52am

The Met Police has expressed ‘regret’ over the arrests of six anti-monarchy protesters on coronation day. Officers even apologised in person to Graham Smith, the leader of the anti-Monarchy group Republic. But so far, no-one has said sorry to me.
I’m a middle-aged dad, and not much of a rebel, but feel strongly about wanting an elected head of state. So, at 7.45am last Saturday, on the day of the coronation, I was part of a dozen-strong Republic sub-group, stationed on the Mall just opposite the Duke of York steps.
The plan was simple. Nine of us, wearing yellow Republic T-shirts, would hold metre-square placards, each containing a letter of the phrase ‘NOT MY KING’. At the precise moment the gold-encrusted carriage passes, we intended to raise our banners, ideally in the right order (thankfully we seem an educated bunch), while chanting the slogan: ‘Not My King’.

Was this all a ruse to keep us out the way and prevent us crashing the party?Despite the drizzle, the mood in the crowd is expectant. Some are curious, engaging us in good-humoured conversation trying to understand why we’re here. Many are tourists – French, American, Scandinavian – relieved their own countries don’t confer similar responsibilities on a 74-year-old, with eccentric opinions, requiring him to converse on our behalf and on an equal footing with world leaders, purely through an accident of birth.
While we await our big moment, a colleague with knowledge of the law maintains a regular dialogue with the police. He checks repeatedly that they’re happy with our intentions, especially the raising of our banners. As increasingly senior officers arrive on the scene, we’re again reassured they have no objections.
Eventually we hear the waves of military bands, evidence that the soon-to-be crowned monarch and his queen are coming. We gaze at the cameras on the temporary scaffolding opposite and prepare to raise our boards. Our once-in-a-lifetime opportunity will soon be upon us – a few seconds to make our mark on history.

But it is not to be. At 10.16am we’re surrounded by 20 officers who escort us back into St. James’s Park. Ironically it is only as we are led away, that the crowd reacts. There are a few boos and jeers; a crowd-pleasing ‘take ‘em down’. No doubt some onlookers think the sight of a score of burly bobbies leading away a few middle-class professionals and retirees means we were up to no good.
Here, we are remorsefully addressed by a slightly built, rather debonair sergeant with a matey Welsh accent. He regrets disturbing us and tells us we are definitely not being arrested. But they’ve had reports that people in the crowd are carrying missiles – paint, rape alarms etc – so we’re being stopped and searched, to ascertain whether it is us. Two officers go through my rucksack, delving into my sandwiches, leafing through a magazine, even opening my water bottle.
Nearly half-an-hour later, we’re free to go. They’ve discovered no evidence we intend to criminally disrupt the procession. By then, of course, the King is in Westminster Abbey – and we’ve missed our chance to protest. Was this all a ruse to keep us out the way and prevent us crashing the party?

We wander off disconsolately, trailed by a pair of Met minders, sharing our frustration that our basic right to protest has been denied us so unfairly. Some of our number slip off to catch a train home. But the hard core remains, returning eventually to the Mall. Far back from the front of the crowd, we defiantly raise our sodden banners as the newly-crowned King inches his return to the palace. Some female royalists, by now well oiled, shout insults. One labels us ‘unpatriotic’, a particularly grotesque slur since all we want is a better Britain than one based on unearned privilege. Another shouts ‘peasants!’. I can live with that.
In the end, we all feel cheated – sad that a once proud and defiant nation had too little self-confidence to tolerate a few peaceful protesters. But the publicity is good, and our arguments are becoming more mainstream. My mugshot has appeared across various media outlets, earning me instant credibility with my daughters – who, I suspect, are rather proud of their old man, trying to stand up for something he believes in.

https://twitter.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1656277047097061377

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 11/05/2023 14:15

Just standing near protesters can get you arrested as well

A royal superfan was arrested and held by police for 13 hours because she happened to be stood next to a group of Just Stop Oil protesters ahead of the King’s coronation
During a 13-hour ordeal, Chambers said she was repeatedly questioned, subjected to physical searches, held in a cell and had her DNA, fingerprints and mugshot photo taken before the Met Police finally realised she was an innocent bystander
twitter.com/theipaper/status/1656634581859147776?s=20

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