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Arrested for holding a banner - can't ruin a big day, can we... PART 2

209 replies

vera99 · 09/05/2023 13:32

A continuation of the debate started at https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4800317-arrested-for-holding-a-banner-cant-ruin-a-big-day-can-we?page=39&reply=126045871

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Thread gallery
24
Puzzledandpissedoff · 09/05/2023 18:17

Still top story on R4!

Well yes, but it will be while they keep wheeling out people to defend the indefensible - even after the police have "apologised" and "expressed regret" Hmm

All to the good though; the more publicity the better

vera99 · 09/05/2023 18:19

Crikey I'm agreeing with JHB - the world's gone mad but hats off to her holding his feet to the fire. The monarch is a paid employee of the state albeit a special one and absolutely the Coronation was the place to peacefully protest whether we agree or not with it. It's not difficult it's an inalienable right.

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countrygirl99 · 09/05/2023 18:27

I grew up in a village split in half by a A road. A long campaign for a zebra crossing was being ignored then, within a few weeks, the lollypop man and a child were knocked down, both suffering fractures. There was a demo with parents and children crossing the road slowly in along line. Giving it a couple of minutes and then doing it again. Went on for a couple of hours. We got the crossing but I reckon it would fall foul of the new legislation.
This was over 50 years ago so these protests are nothing new.

vera99 · 09/05/2023 18:31

Whaeanui · 09/05/2023 14:41

He did really well with that interview considering how combative Kay was, she’s so rude!

Graham Smith 🇺🇦 🏳️‍🌈
Replying to
@KayBurley
You were rude and unprofessional. I’m knackered and really not in the mood for petulant interviewers

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Whaeanui · 09/05/2023 18:35

Ha! Good for him!

JaninaDuszejko · 09/05/2023 18:39

This week has been great publicity for Republic hasn't it. What with the threatening letters sent to them by the police and then the arrests on the day. Suspect they'll get some more members out of this.

vera99 · 09/05/2023 18:39

countrygirl99 · 09/05/2023 18:27

I grew up in a village split in half by a A road. A long campaign for a zebra crossing was being ignored then, within a few weeks, the lollypop man and a child were knocked down, both suffering fractures. There was a demo with parents and children crossing the road slowly in along line. Giving it a couple of minutes and then doing it again. Went on for a couple of hours. We got the crossing but I reckon it would fall foul of the new legislation.
This was over 50 years ago so these protests are nothing new.

It probably would but the vacillators would say of course we don't want to stop that just the eco loons and similar who seek to seriously disrupt our society. I’m sure serious disruption is already illegal such as blocking the King's Highway - just checked it is. So then we are into the murky World of suspicion or conspiracy to commit an offence which hasn't yet been done. All very police statey and the foothills of 1984. David Davies on LBC with Andrew Marr criticising the police now.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/part/IX/crossheading/obstruction-of-highways-and-streets

Highways Act 1980

An Act to consolidate the Highways Acts 1959 to 1971 and related enactments, with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/part/IX/crossheading/obstruction-of-highways-and-streets

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Nat6999 · 09/05/2023 18:42

It's time there was a referendum on the future of the monarchy because at the moment we don't have a choice on whether we have them or finance their lifestyle.

NeverMyKing · 09/05/2023 18:44

@vera99 did he say that to her on the Sky news clip?? I missed it 😄

vera99 · 09/05/2023 18:49

NeverMyKing · 09/05/2023 18:44

@vera99 did he say that to her on the Sky news clip?? I missed it 😄

No on Twitter after the event - he was also on Jeremy Vine apparently and lost his cool.

Graham Smith
I slightly lost my cool on Jeremy Vine this afternoon. I hadn’t been told there would be another guest and I’m not currently in the mood for pompous commentators. I’m also not in the mood to discuss whether someone’s “right” to wave flags at a king justifies locking people up.

https://twitter.com/GrahamSmith_

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NeverMyKing · 09/05/2023 18:51

Ah that’s a shame 😬

cakeorwine · 09/05/2023 18:58

Lots to unpick from the Rowley statement

Sir Mark Rowley defends Met officers who protected King’s historic Coronation | Evening Standard

Officers have told me how the celebrating crowds applauded and cheered as they made 17 arrests in The Mall area close to the processional route and imminent to the start of the procession.

........
However, on reviewing the evidence we will be taking no further action against the six Republic protestors arrested. Officers searched a vehicle on Saturday morning and found items which at the time they believed could have been used as part of a ‘lock on’ style protest. As I would expect the arresting officers were vigilant, curious, and proactive. They formed the ‘reasonable suspicion’ necessary to arrest for the new Section 2 Public Order Act 2023 offence of Being Equipped to Lock On, and these were the only arrests under the new legislation. Having now reviewed the evidence and potential lines of enquiry we do not judge that we will be able to prove criminal intent beyond all reasonable doubt.
...........

Indeed, personally, I am immensely grateful to them that I am not currently trying to explain why we failed to prevent the perfect Coronation celebration being significantly disrupted or injury or harm to people witnessed on the world stage. In the coming weeks, months and years we will deal with further challenging events.
While too often polarised public commentary will criticise based more on bias than facts, we will always strive to pursue our responsibilities without fear or favour, acting on the information available on the day, and striving to strike that balance: protecting freedom of expression, as well as the rights of Londoners, and visitors, to enjoy our city.

.....................

Why mention the people applauding arrests? Is that how arrests work?

It looks like the ends justify the means.

Khan has asked him to ask some key questions:

Despite the welcome efforts of so many committed officers, it is clear that some of the arrests made have given rise to concerns and, in my oversight role as mayor, I am seeking assurance from you that the issues related to these will be subject to a review and lessons learned. In particular, I would ask that you urgently provide me with further information on:

-The arrests of six members of the “Republic” group, and why the arresting officers did not appear to know or take into account, the liaison Republic had undertaken with Met in advance of the event?

-Why the protest liaison officer was not part of the decision-making process on the arrests or even contacted?

-Why there was not a faster resolution in respect of these arrests following the initial decision to arrest?

-What role the new legislation played in the arrests, and what consideration was given to concerns raised by City Hall that section 2 Public Order Act 2023 “being equipped to lock on” was so broadly drawn, that it could interfere with peaceful protest if not carefully interpreted?

-What liaison took place with Westminster city council after the arrests of the “Night Star” volunteers?

-What briefing was provided to officers who were drafted in from outside of Westminster borough area to ensure they were aware of local partnership arrangements?In his letter Khan also accepted that “balancing public safety requirements against the fundamental right to peaceful protest is not easy” and he thanked the police for their success in making the coronation a global success.

Sir Mark Rowley defends Met officers who protected King’s historic Coronation

Protest is an important right in any democracy, but it is limited and has to be carefully balanced

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/sir-mark-rowley-metropolitan-police-officers-king-coronation-london-b1079764.html

cakeorwine · 09/05/2023 18:59

Why is this in the Royal Family topic?

This is NOT about the Royal Family - it's about our right to protest.

vera99 · 09/05/2023 19:15

cakeorwine · 09/05/2023 18:59

Why is this in the Royal Family topic?

This is NOT about the Royal Family - it's about our right to protest.

I put it in there as much to keep it under the noses of monarchists as food for thought or engagement. Very happy to have it moved elsewhere if that would increase it's visibility. Can that be done and if so where ?

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cakeorwine · 09/05/2023 19:21

This is the comments from Parliament.

A bit chilling from some MPS

Coronation: Policing of Protests - Hansard - UK Parliament

Doobydoo · 09/05/2023 19:30

Fantastic publicity for Republic....which was definitely not the intention. I really hope this galvanises people into signing up.

Vitriolinsanity · 09/05/2023 19:37

@vera99 sure you did.

Monarchists can read the papers and watch the news on lots of channels and read multiple Mumsnet threads in different subjects. I believe you prefer to put your observations in a place where it causes aggro. Simply report your post and ask for it to be removed to say In The News or Chat.

It seems that the Met totally bungled this on Saturday. After so much discussion and planning, why on Earth weren't the officers at the protest place clued in, and if they were out of their depth not escalate effectively. I've heard reports about PO's being drafted in to support the Met, but that's just more reason to ensure communication was clear.

I, like many, wanted to watch the Coronation and could and would have done so regardless of peaceful protest. I would have considered animal rights protesters demonstrating about the fur used in ermin the same accord. I would have simply ignored the protest politely, as I'd have expected the protest to have politely have ignored me waving a banner.

I am struggling to imagine that the King himself, who was after all quite busy, personally stopped the protests of a known small group of people that had been talking to the Met for months.

vera99 · 09/05/2023 19:48

This is Mumsnet, and I'm sorry but the Royal Family forum doesn't say only fawning posts that are fully supportive of the institution should be here. The British Royal Family subreddit is there for those who want that. I'm staying away from other threads such as do you think Prince Louis should have worn shorts or some such nonsense as I appreciate that rocks some folks boats and I have no desire to cause offence to random strangers. Any aggro would be by monarchists feeling affronted by having an impertinent thread in 'their' forum and being intemperate in their response.

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vera99 · 09/05/2023 19:50

Oh, it's been moved the equivalent of a detention by the authorities.😀

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Vitriolinsanity · 09/05/2023 19:54

I wonder if, in your fake righteous indignation, you poodled to paragraphs 3,4 and 5 of my post. Probably not.

cakeorwine · 09/05/2023 19:54

Mark Rowley's comments about people applauding arrests is chilling.

It is good that the Coronation wasn't disturbed with direct action - I don't think that would have been appropriate.

However, they have really done themselves damage - and it's worrying to hear some of the MPs who can't seem to understand the effect on peaceful protest that this has had.

Who knows what will happen if they go to a peaceful protest now?

Vitriolinsanity · 09/05/2023 19:58

The thing is @cakeorwine would those people have known that the arrests were being made in conflict of the agreements that had been made. They may genuinely have believed the police, because they are the police and supposedly trustworthy (different discussion) were stopping criminal activity.

Vitriolinsanity · 09/05/2023 20:00

Whatever, I think we can all agree, irrespective of our views on monarchy or republicanism, cats or dogs that when peaceful protest is forcibly stopped we are in real trouble.

cakeorwine · 09/05/2023 20:02

Vitriolinsanity · 09/05/2023 19:58

The thing is @cakeorwine would those people have known that the arrests were being made in conflict of the agreements that had been made. They may genuinely have believed the police, because they are the police and supposedly trustworthy (different discussion) were stopping criminal activity.

It's not the applause.

It's the mention of the applause in Rowley's statement.

He did not need to mention that. That's not how policing works. Why mention that in the statement?

cakeorwine · 09/05/2023 20:03

The Government was warned this would happen - loosely defined leglisation and criminalising protest.

The response from Labour is also disappointing, TBH

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