Page 2 | Arrested for holding a banner - can't ruin a big day, can we... PART 2

vera99 · 2023-05-09T12:32:45+00:00

A continuation of the debate started at [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4800317-arrested-for-holding-a-banner-cant-ruin-a-big-day-can-we?page=39&reply=126045871 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4800317-arrested-for-holding-a-banner-cant-ruin-a-big-day-can-we?page=39&reply=126045871]]

countrygirl99 · 09/05/2023 15:30

It's the old saying about a lie being half way round the world while the truth is still putting it's shoes on.

countrygirl99 · 09/05/2023 15:31

milveycrohn · 09/05/2023 15:29

I think the police are caught between a rock and a hard place, tbh.
We saw something, I believe at the late Queen's funeral, when a protestor was attacked by others nearby trying to show their respect. So it may be that the police thought that protestors would cause a similar type of incident, where one or more could be attacked by others trying to celebrate.
On the whole, I think protestors should be allowed, but I think the police can't win. If protestors had caused an incident, they presumably thought it best they were not there.
I think it largely depends on the kind of protest. There were rumours that some 'Stop oil' protesters were going to blow some kind of whistle to disturb the horses, which can be very dangerous. The horse can bolt, or charge into the crowd. So, the police were possibly heavy handed, but maybe they saw it as being cautious.

Surely it's the people attacking others who should be arrested. Or is violence by Royalists acceptable these days?

Original poster

vera99 · 09/05/2023 15:35

Novella4 · 09/05/2023 15:05

One royalist argument you hear all the time is that the Windsors are apolitical ( not!) and that they unite the country

They really don't .
They are pushing it to say they unite England but once it's 50/50 - what then ?

Once you get to 50% then that is a watershed moment. If they have any sense they will use their time now to pause and reflect as to what works and what doesn't and how they can be more accountable and relevant particularly to the younger generation. From where I'm standing that just doesn't seem to be happening and since they cannot be political (the Rwanda comments and Johnson was interesting and in a very limited and specific way I'm with the ex-PM this - the King cannot countermand or seek to influence elected representatives) then endless guff about clothes, opening leisure centres or an occasional visit to a food bank or hospital and the like just seems pointless and totally out of touch with 21st Century Britain.

Britain was and is a great country - but we desperately need an election, electoral reform and a progressive consensus around issues such as housebuilding at pace, the climate crisis, employment, pensions, the NHS, affordable childcare and a country that works for the many not the few in all aspects of our lives. Not one hollowed and pillaged for short term profits by a rapacious financial class.

Otherwise, there is no real future for those coming through at the base. From the young people I know the monarchy is a symptom of an unequal society getting more unequal by the day and has no relevance at all to their lived lives.

OP posts:

Zuve · 09/05/2023 15:39

They knew they would be in trouble. The police can not win. Yes I think they had to be arrested.

DuncinToffee · 09/05/2023 15:41

Zuve · 09/05/2023 15:39

They knew they would be in trouble. The police can not win. Yes I think they had to be arrested.

Who is 'they'?

The people from Republic who had held detailed discussions and agreements with the police beforehand?

countrygirl99 · 09/05/2023 15:44

Zuve · 09/05/2023 15:39

They knew they would be in trouble. The police can not win. Yes I think they had to be arrested.

I'm confused. Why would Republic expect trouble when they had agreement from the very police force that arrested them? Why would the team that help women out on the streets at 2am expect trouble from the police force whose logo they have on their hi-viz?

Roussette · 09/05/2023 15:50

Zuve · 09/05/2023 15:39

They knew they would be in trouble. The police can not win. Yes I think they had to be arrested.

They had months of talks with the Police before the event. Even on Friday the CEO of Republic had agreement from the police force to stand where they did. The Police knew how many placards they were taking, everything.

So your post saying they had to be arrested is about as valid as me having to be arrested for going to Sainsburys instead of Tesco!

Original poster

vera99 · 09/05/2023 15:52

NeverMyKing · 09/05/2023 15:21

This link is frightening - “the crowds cheered the arrests”. Well yes they would wouldn’t they? 🤦‍♀️ So it’s now mob rule? Whoever cheers the loudest gets the police to arrest the others.

This is the moron who is sorting out the Met? God help us all.

He might like to say they were cheering was in a first draft that I unfortunately sent out in error ! What an absolutely terrible thing to say about cheering, like you say, it's tacitly supporting mob rule. Maybe officers would like to search through all the rubbish left behind on the Mall and send fixed penalty notices to the offenders since they have a very low tolerance for disruption.

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Novella4 · 09/05/2023 16:09

@vera99
I couldn't agree more with your post below

"Once you get to 50% then that is a watershed moment. If they have any sense they will use their time now to pause and reflect as to what works and what doesn't and how they can be more accountable and relevant particularly to the younger generation. From where I'm standing that just doesn't seem to be happening and since they cannot be political (the Rwanda comments and Johnson was interesting and in a very limited and specific way I'm with the ex-PM this - the King cannot countermand or seek to influence elected representatives) then endless guff about clothes, opening leisure centres or an occasional visit to a food bank or hospital and the like just seems pointless and totally out of touch with 21st Century Britain.

Britain was and is a great country - but we desperately need an election, electoral reform and a progressive consensus around issues such as housebuilding at pace, the climate crisis, employment, pensions, the NHS, affordable childcare and a country that works for the many not the few in all aspects of our lives. Not one hollowed and pillaged for short term profits by a rapacious financial class.

Otherwise, there is no real future for those coming through at the base. From the young people I know the monarchy is a symptom of an unequal society getting more unequal by the day and has no relevance at all to their lived lives."

I feel this coronation has been a watershed moment . Yes I know some posters love 'pomp' but that isn't always how it's viewed here or internationally.
It's looking a bit ridiculous and ossified. A bit of the Miss Havershim's about it

So much of the 'pomp' is military and connected to a long gone empire . There was an article in the New York Times saying just that . I'll link it if I find it again

pointythings · 09/05/2023 16:19

The only downside of the Dutch model is that their security costs dwarf those of the UK lot. Because their kids go to state schools and because they interact with the public so much more. But they're not too bad on the whole. I was at uni when Willem Alexander was there being Prince Beer and running BMWs into the drink now and then, and he's definitely grown up.

Whaeanui · 09/05/2023 16:21

This is the moron who is sorting out the Met? God help us all.

Yeah they’re just replacing one bad egg with another.

Magentaprimrosewithfescue · 09/05/2023 16:33

Novella4 · 09/05/2023 16:09

@vera99
I couldn't agree more with your post below

"Once you get to 50% then that is a watershed moment. If they have any sense they will use their time now to pause and reflect as to what works and what doesn't and how they can be more accountable and relevant particularly to the younger generation. From where I'm standing that just doesn't seem to be happening and since they cannot be political (the Rwanda comments and Johnson was interesting and in a very limited and specific way I'm with the ex-PM this - the King cannot countermand or seek to influence elected representatives) then endless guff about clothes, opening leisure centres or an occasional visit to a food bank or hospital and the like just seems pointless and totally out of touch with 21st Century Britain.

Britain was and is a great country - but we desperately need an election, electoral reform and a progressive consensus around issues such as housebuilding at pace, the climate crisis, employment, pensions, the NHS, affordable childcare and a country that works for the many not the few in all aspects of our lives. Not one hollowed and pillaged for short term profits by a rapacious financial class.

Otherwise, there is no real future for those coming through at the base. From the young people I know the monarchy is a symptom of an unequal society getting more unequal by the day and has no relevance at all to their lived lives."

I feel this coronation has been a watershed moment . Yes I know some posters love 'pomp' but that isn't always how it's viewed here or internationally.
It's looking a bit ridiculous and ossified. A bit of the Miss Havershim's about it

So much of the 'pomp' is military and connected to a long gone empire . There was an article in the New York Times saying just that . I'll link it if I find it again

Yes it’s an interesting question isn’t it? I think everyone finds comfort in looking back to tradition and the past because bluntly the uk has a very unclear vision for the future.

Theres a global shift in power taking place in which our role on the world stage could diminish dramatically. We could have protected ourselves somewhat by remaining part of the EU but now we are well and truly on our own.

Having said no to the the broadly centrist Christian democrat politics of the EU, we seem to be heading to the right with less state intervention and public services pared to the bone.

Just what do we want for our dc? In five, ten, thirty and fifty years time?

Original poster

vera99 · 09/05/2023 16:38

Similar to the Royal Family if nothing changes, and you don't have inherited wealth you're stuffed. Incidentally are you allowed to camp out in Royal Parks legally ?

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 09/05/2023 17:00

He did really well with that interview considering how combative Kay was

He's used to it, and no doubt knows that it's best to remain calm when faced with aggression

And thanks for the new thread, Vera ...

Novella4 · 09/05/2023 17:04

@Magentaprimrosewithfescue

I think the current Tories and Boris esp emulated Trump
Black is white
So we will be a satellite state of the USA - the private health companies already have their feet under the table and our university fees are already higher than most US colleges

Puzzledandpissedoff · 09/05/2023 17:08

Incidentally are you allowed to camp out in Royal Parks legally ?

Apparently not - or at least not overnight - though I guess they may have waived this for the coronation period?

DuncinToffee · 09/05/2023 17:17

https://twitter.com/mattgreencomedy/status/1655912340087271424?s=20

Coronation protests!

Original poster

vera99 · 09/05/2023 17:18

The Telegraph puts its mind to whither next ? As a hunch I would say can the foreign tours and concentrate on the home front and put the hours in meeting and greeting. The riding on the coattails of granny and a free such are over and Harry has said nope and bye...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/05/09/can-william-keep-the-royal-family-relevant/

However, recent events have sparked some debate over the purpose of foreign tours and what they should look like. While the Royal family still get a fanatical welcome in many countries – such as Germany, where the King made his first visit as monarch – they may need to alter the focus of visits to some former colonies.

One source who has worked with the King in the past said: “The notion of the travelling royals has changed.

“In some places they have become a cypher for every bad thing the country has done in the past, and they are getting caught up in protests about slavery, or about the way indigenous populations have been treated.

“If tours end up drawing more negative attention than positive, why are they doing them? At the moment the palaces don’t know the answer.”

What Prince William needs to do to fix the Firm

With no large royal occasions for maybe 20 years or more, the Prince of Wales and his family will be crucial to the success of the monarchy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/05/09/can-william-keep-the-royal-family-relevant

OP posts:

Original poster

vera99 · 09/05/2023 17:24

DuncinToffee · 09/05/2023 17:17

https://twitter.com/mattgreencomedy/status/1655912340087271424?s=20

Coronation protests!

Very good hadn't heard of him before, but he's spot on. Some YouTube wag should deck themselves out in all the relevant swag and rock up to St James Park and camp out to see what happens.

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JenniferBooth · 09/05/2023 17:34

Its not only the blockades by JSO and XR that have helped to push these new draconian laws through. Its also those who wanted these draconian laws to stop those protesting the lockdowns.

Never has the phrase, "be careful what you wish for" been more apt

NeverMyKing · 09/05/2023 17:46

The lack of royal occasions for many years is going to be a real issue. The next event will either be 10 years of Charles on the throne or his funeral (hard to predict). Given the shit show of this weekend a “celebration” of 10 years is going to be a nightmare for them 😬

NeverMyKing · 09/05/2023 18:07

Still top story on R4!

Original poster

vera99 · 09/05/2023 18:09

Yes weddings and births, but they’re not national occasions, and we are talking the second division. The haters will see Harry's marriage failing, his return and the national apology followed by the Service for The Prodigal Son in which he is rebirthed back into the Royal fold ! But that's not going to happen.

The Dutch played a blinder with their abdicate and let the younger blood through to take on the role.

OP posts:

JenniferBooth · 09/05/2023 18:12

Julia Hartley Brewer clashing with a Tory MP on this. Terrifying attitude from him

https://twitter.com/TalkTV/status/1655853304725815297?s=20

DuncinToffee · 09/05/2023 18:14

ITV News has seen written correspondence proving that Republic had been talking to police about their protest from as early as January 24.

They had at least one meeting with officers, on March 24, and kept police informed of their plans right up until the May 2 - just days before the coronation.

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-05-09/sunak-defends-new-protest-law-after-police-regret-coronation-arrests