The People demand that the Boats are Stopped.

[noblegiraffe]

I keep reading about the Tory government working hard to deliver the people's priorities:

"Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Government are focused on five immediate priorities. We will halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce debt, cut NHS waiting lists and stop the boats."

Halve inflation (will happen anyway), grow the economy (vague), reduce debt (vague), cut NHS waiting lists (maybe by paying nurses and doctors more?), stop the boats (what?).

Maybe it's just where I live, but I'm not seeing this immediate urgent need to "stop the boats". It's certainly nowhere near my top 5 priorities for the government to be immediately tackling. If it was, I'd probably look at creating legal routes for genuine asylum seekers as a first step rather than shipping them to Rwanda.

Is it in your top 5 urgent government priorities? Are they speaking to the people and I've just completely missed it?

YABU: Stopping the boats is in my top 5 government priorities.
YANBU: I'm more concerned about something else and would bump Stop the Boats down the list.

I think the people calling for migrants to do the low skilled low paid jobs that they themselves will often not do, because it doesn't pay enough / give enough job satisfaction/ they prefer to stay at home, is equally crass, and quite racist.

Sounds reasonable to me.

I think it is objectionable, but not crass.

People were saying that it was fine for middle class people to come to the country despite the strain they put on the infrastructure in contrast to 'low skilled people' entering the country.

It was pointed out that there are many, many vacancies in low-skilled job areas that they could do if people were worried about them finding work, and actually the country needs more low-skilled workers.

Coming back with 'that's racist' is just utterly shit arguing.

The country wouldn't need more low skilled workers if people already here went and did those jobs. But they don't want to. They'd rather brown people on the boats took these low paid jobs. That racist. And crass.

No one has said that.

There's been plenty of discussion of brown people on boats plus low skilled jobs they can do which white people don't want to do, because too low paid / no job satisfaction/ don't want to work. But fine for the brown people to fill those roles. Yeah. That's pretty racist.

Would you do the back breaking agricultural work that many foreigners come to do? Are you happy to do the really shitty below minimum wage jobs that immigrants are prepared to do?

Or do you just want other Brits to do it in order to keep foreigners out, safe in the knowledge that you have the education or skills that mean you don't have to?

There shouldn't be any shitty jobs. A job that is hard to do should pay a decent wage to compensate for it being hard, so that British people will want to do it.

I have done that work. For years. And yes, I think if working age adults who don't have a private income can work, then they should work. Rather than funding them to stay at home and then getting brown people to do the work they think is beneath them. Shame it's not possible to do a swap really. I welcome hard workers whoever they are. Lazy people, not so much.

So your point is merely benefits bashing?

Of course people should be paid a fair wage in line with skills / knowledge / physical work. I believe that's what the brexit voter's hoped for when they voted out. A fair wage. But the cheap labour is just being replaced instead. What does that solve? We end up having people being taken advantage of. Still the laptop classes will get their cleaners and nannies eh.

Lazy people bashing. Just to be clear.

So when we e.g. hire people from India to do jobs in computing, is that ok because the jobs aren't minimum wage, or is that also racist?

I don't think it's racist but it's definitely wrong. Why can't the companies hire British kids and train them up?

Right, so you don't want any immigration for shortage workers.

What about safe havens for asylum seekers who have fled horrific circumstances?

But if you want people to be paid a fair wage, why do you want people who refuse to do work that is not paid at a fair wage to be swapped with immigrants who are willing to come here and work for an objectionably low wage? You keep contradicting yourself.

If we started paying all the agricultural workers/ pickers £15 an hour how much do you think our food would cost? It's a complicated situation. People have got used to cheap food. A lot of people can't afford to eat as it is.
A lot of the work it seasonal and migratory so suits workers who come and go. Not so good if your kids are in local schools.
A few months ago, when crops were rotting on the ground one of the Tories suggested that the pensioners who won't get a pension til 68 should do it.

A few months ago, when crops were rotting on the ground one of the Tories suggested that the pensioners who won't get a pension til 68 should do it

I thought it was claimed that Owen Paterson said that, when he was Environment Secretary during the coalition government (2012-2014).

Either way it’s more ignorant bullshit out of the mouths of tories.

As if people in their 60s who have never done field work before can fill the gap!!! Picking is skilled work to complete quickly and to specification, and pickers have to be in good health, with good backs and joints, and able to withstand all weathers, otherwise they don’t last 5 minutes.

I thought that part of it was the fact that what we consider crap pay is often worth comparatively more in their home countries? So it's not necessarily 'a crap job' in all senses because pay often determines the worth of a job (e.g. pay uplifts for unsociable hours or dangerous work like oil rigging - which would be a terrible job to do on minimum wage).

If so, a better question to ask is whether a British person would do a crap job for an excellent salary. I kind of did in changing from office work to truck driving. Seven hour evening shift for £40k and I spend two hours of it on my ipad waiting for the motorways to be closed. Zero stress unlike any other £40k job I've had (which I know isn't exactly a king's ransom but is of a level where you usually can't doss around).

Would I drive trucks and sacrifice my evening for minimum wage? Would I fuck.

We don't have the people. Have you seen the actual unemployment statistics? It is a Tory lie that the UK has loads of feckless people on the dole.

It's a job in which the required skills can be developed quickly. Not sure if you've noticed, but it's not all women in care homes. And when people's mums and grans need to be lifted, maybe they will be grateful that the home has strong workers to help with that.

It's telling that you fasten on only one aspect of the work available in the categories referred to. What is your objection to male workers doing cleaning, working in kitchens, laundries, gardens, clerical jobs, to say nothing of all the work going in hospitality?

I think a great many people will never actually have the “soft” skills or temperament required to work directly with vulnerable, frail people.

And I wasn't referring to non-genuine asylum seekers. As I've made absolutely clear, I have no problem whatsoever with people who actually are illegal immigrants being deported, and in fact I think the government should have a much more efficient system in place for doing so.

When I talk about giving priority , I'm talking about the principle of allowing refugees in as a priority. I am not talking about refugees having priority in terms of access to services etc, where they should be subject to the normal laws and policies in place. It's a nonsense to talk about anyone giving up their house, particularly when we have so much empty property all over the country.