The People demand that the Boats are Stopped.

[noblegiraffe]

I keep reading about the Tory government working hard to deliver the people's priorities:

"Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Government are focused on five immediate priorities. We will halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce debt, cut NHS waiting lists and stop the boats."

Halve inflation (will happen anyway), grow the economy (vague), reduce debt (vague), cut NHS waiting lists (maybe by paying nurses and doctors more?), stop the boats (what?).

Maybe it's just where I live, but I'm not seeing this immediate urgent need to "stop the boats". It's certainly nowhere near my top 5 priorities for the government to be immediately tackling. If it was, I'd probably look at creating legal routes for genuine asylum seekers as a first step rather than shipping them to Rwanda.

Is it in your top 5 urgent government priorities? Are they speaking to the people and I've just completely missed it?

YABU: Stopping the boats is in my top 5 government priorities.
YANBU: I'm more concerned about something else and would bump Stop the Boats down the list.

Undoubtedly some will. Or are you assuming that all people who come in by boat are illiterate, unskilled and unable to speak or learn English?

Only if you equate wanting mass uncontrolled immigration with being prepared to treat asylum seekers coming in by boat as people whose asylum claims should be properly considered, or indeed people who should be offered safe routes. They simply aren't the same thing at all. Hope that helps.

Seriously, how many people on this thread or indeed anywhere do you see advocating in favour of retaining illegal immigrants? Why would we go through al the expense of a referendum on a no-brainer? It would be like having a vote about whether we should punish thieves.

Or are you by any chance following the government line of equating refugees with illegal immigrants?

People are simply pointing out that the standard arguments about people taking our jobs doesn't work when there are so many vacancies. And these are certainly not only in unskilled work. If you have had anything to do with the health services recently, you would be well aware of how dependent we are on people from other countries doing a large variety of skilled jobs.

If this thread has demonstrated anything, @noblegiraffe, it's that most people don't feel that knowing what they're talking about is any bar to having an opinion on it. Also a solution.

It's profoundly depressing.

Incidentally, the calm and informed demeanour you've maintained throughout is pretty unusual. What are you trying to do - undermine MN's entire culture?

I’m trying to even think what my five priorities are 🤔

1. A working health care system in this country 2)An education system that functions 3)A police force that’s interested and capable of policing and catching criminals 4)An environment that’s free from litter, some green spaces protected, wildlife prioritised 5)A government that doesn’t crumble to a minority of online activists and make laws that the majority of people DON’T WANT.

I think the reality is the Government does not want genuine asylum seekers coming to the UK - there are so many war torn, dictatorial and deeply intolerant countries in the world (and numbers will only increase with climate change making more places intolerable to live in), I think it thinks it would never be able to keep its promises on immigration if the UK kept its promises on providing asylum. So it makes the country look as unwelcoming as possible for all but the immigrants it has allowed to be invited over by by employers, or who are hugely wealthy and can buy their way in. If the Government had its way, it would not welcome asylum seekers, it would only actually welcome economic migrants - but economic migrants of its choosing.

The government are hardly wrong for doing this. The welfare and well-being of British people has to take priority over trying to save the rest of the world. We simply do not have room or resources to sustain everyone who wants to come here.

The reality is, though, that the Government does not prioritise the wellbeing of British people - it likes to blame British people for being insufficiently productive and greedy, thus blaming its own citizens for the Government’s apparent inability to prioritise, or indeed, organise, anything (other than corporate greed). The poor Government, it’s just surrounded by feckless wasters. Not the Government’s fault at all.

The government is not interested in looking after anyone, British or not...

The government don’t give a shit about anyone other than themselves and the 1%. The evidence is all around us.

There's that quote isn't there... attributed to Tony Benn but I don't think it's his.
It's very instructive to see how the government treats refugees as it's how they would treat all of us if they thought they could get away with it.

It's 75 percent women in most care homes it's a massive ratio. 100 year old women are from a different time and the vast majority really don't want men changing them, combine that with dementia and confusion its really not a good mix.. I personally wouldn't care if it was me but the patients DO care.

Also big strong men thing doesn't matter, you aren't supposed to physically lift people like that as you will knacker your back out. The correct moving handling is to use hoists and slide sheets.

Very true it is, too.

Net migration is current 500k per year, 45k people coming in on boats is a small %.

The UK cannot sustain 500k each and every year and this figure is set to double!

We have opened the door to 5m from HK alone.

Unlike with EU migration, people now coming here are older, have little in the way of skills, large families inc grandparents and will settle here permanently.

It is utter madness.

Cultural Genocide
Article 7, United Nations draft 1994:

a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities.
b) Any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their lands, territories or resources.
c) Any form of population transfer which has the aim or effect of violating or undermining any of their rights.
d) Any form of assimilation or integration by other cultures or ways of life imposed on them by legislative, administrative or other measures.
e) Any form of propaganda directed against them.

Genocide Convention, Geneva 1948, Raphael Lemkin:

"Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves.

The objectives of such a plan would be disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.

Genocide is directed against the national group as an entity, and the actions involved are directed against individuals, not in their individual capacity, but as members of the national group."

There is no route to claim asylum via UNHCR.
https://fullfact.org/immigration/UNHCR-asylum-seekers-Sudan/

We're not remotely trying to save the rest of the world. We're not even taking a proportionate number of refugees for our size compared with other countries. We have more than enough room.

Is that the case? I thought that families were accompanying post grad students. SUrELY just studying here -at great expense - does not entitle the rellies to life long residency - no way Hosay .
I was at a PHD ceremony at a good U.K. uni and imv there were very few foreign families

It's nothing to do with students.The Hong Kong thing was a hangover from it being a British colony. A lot of Hong Kong citizens are entitled to a form of British citizenship and since the recent Chinese crackdowns they've been invited over. It's been estimated up to 500,000 and no-one's up in arms about that are they? I wonder why that could be?

I should imagine many people are, actually, given the numbers of people who object to the overall migration figures.

The Govt changed the law to allow both the older generation and younger to come to the UK, its causing huge issues in housing health & schooling, people i know who have come to the UK are all elderly, with their children already here in earlier waves of migration.

The media do not question ministers when they come out with BS like "we have safe routes for people fleeing HK to come to the UK..." i don't think the public are really aware of what the Govt is doing, which is packing the UK with people of conservative values, irrespective of our ability to cope.

FFS HK is not a war zone and is considered a very safe place to live, work and travel too..... there is no comparison to Iran, Afghanistan and Syria etc.

Driven by the Brexit vote, the tories promised to cut net migration to under 100,000 per year until that pledge was dropped before the 2019 election.…

Tackling the people arriving in boats will barely dent the UK’s net migration figures. It’s a dog and pony show for the brexiteers to distract from Tory failure to develop a comprehensive and fair set of policies around immigration. Policies that fulfil international obligations to people fleeing war and persecution, and fulfil the needs of the domestic labour market, whilst ensuring the level matches the level of housing and services to take a population increase like that.

Basically we need the conservatives to go asap. They are incompetent by any measure.

We do not have enough room under the current chaotic, inadequate processing system which just leaves rapidly growing numbers of people to live in limbo for ridiculously long periods of time. The only systematic thing this Government has done is run down the country, to the point its ageing infrastructure is barely coping under the strain, biodiversity is under threat, and basic housing requirements cannot be met, whether for migrants or the native population. The Government cannot treat migrants with dignity while failing to treat its own citizens with dignity and failing to care for the natural environment, because that would not go down well. So, its hands are tied by its own ineptitude. It has to treat migrants badly, because it treats its own citizens badly.