To ask if you have a problem with the burkini?

[Mvslimah]

Honest answers please

would you give a woman (maybe Muslim maybe Jewish) a wide berth if you saw them wearing a burkini or modest (Ie fully covered) swimsuit at a pool?

if you see a woman wearing one do you give it a second thought or is it just a meh, who cares?

tia

It has been very interesting to live in the Middle East and it has definitely broadened and shifted my views on many things. Qatar is very multicultural so even though it is predominantly Muslim, the Muslim population is from dozens of countries. The Muslim population is mostly made up of nationals (Qatari), arabs from MENA nations, South Asians (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka), East Africans (Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia), South East Asians (Philippines, Indonesia), and a smattering of other countries (Iran, Turkey, etc).

The interpretations of modesty and appropriate dress here are vast. There is no one understanding. Although women are subserviant / submissive to men in Islam, they are not inferior, and how that subserviance is enacted varies greatly by household. Arab and Muslim women here are far more dominant, assertive, outspoken, opinionated, and argumentative than I ever thought I would see in an Islamic country. They are not submissive in a quiet, passive, obedient way but more in following the tenets of Islam and submitting to the teachings and 'rules' of Allah and Islam. Many women are quite devout in their faith and are mostly focused on what Allah would think and what is required of them within Islam and not as concerned about what men would think. While there are very conservative families where the women are more tightly controlled, that is not the majority of them at all. When it comes to swimming, the different beaches and pools here have varying dress codes so women can go where they want and wear what they want. I can go to a beach who no dress code and wear a bikini if I want and there are also beaches that require women to cover. There are also women only beaches where Muslim women wear typical one and two piece swim suits as there are no men on the beach. Same with pools. There are companies that make sporty hijabs and burkinis that are more suitable for female athletes who need aerodynamic gear. There is nothing unhygenic about a burkini - it is just more fabric. Just like a one piece isn't more unhygenic than a bikini!

You think the UK is a ‘wonderful place’ to be a woman?

Yes, I think it's pretty good considering. There's a lot of focus on gender pay parity and board representation. We have personal freedom, we can wear whatever we want and same-sex relationships are legal.

Unless there's a utopian country I'm not aware of?

I've skipped to the end, @Mvslimah , as it's such a long thread, (apart from reading some of your replies) but I am very sad that anyone would care what you wore. :-(
I'm so sorry that you've had to put up with such awful behaviour. :-(

Yes it feels like bullying. And I rarely say that.

lololol, slimeandfearmetro.. Are people really managing to get hung up about the use of the term 'modest' or 'modestwear'. I thought it was just a widely accepted fashion industry term. Like the term 'casual wear' which, afaik doesn't imply that everyone in a suit is uptight.

Ironically, if the UK was such a good place for women, full of equality,freedom bla bla bla women would not get so triggered and offended by "modest" clothing. Because the implication of immodest and all the issues associated with it, wouldn't exist/actually matter anymore.

You can't have it both ways.

It concerns me that people would actually be bothered by it. Why would you want another woman to take off he me clothes? She needs to be comfortable. Not everyone wants revealing swimsuits. Especially not with kids to pull them down 😂

Goodness. Yes we have got some things right. But so much still isn’t.

Eg Have you not come across young women feeling pressure that they have to dress up for events, show flesh to look sexy? Their boyfriends wanting them to look a certain way. Employers thinking women should wear skirts not trousers. This stuff goes on. Do you think that’s all free choice?

And that’s just one area. Open your eyes.

People not to realize not everyone wants to wear a bikini. Anything to help participation and getting more women to swim is surely a great thing. Aren't we supposed to remove barriers and be inclusive to all people and help them rather than say "that is disgusting or offensive." You do not get to be offended on behalf of others. I see a lot of comments here that are very ignorant. It is the same with Ramadan we get white women feeling sorry for Muslims "oh not another month of them starving themselves." Most Muslims I know love Ramadan and participate fully in it so I do not get why we get comments to feel sorry for Muslims when most do not complain about it.

need to realize

And that’s just one area. Open your eyes.

Am I not allowed to have a different view? I don't feed the need to tell people who have a different opinion to 'open their eyes'.

*feel

So many women and girls have adopted an appearance that is unnatural, and takes time, effort, money and anxiety to maintain. Pancake make-up, fake tan, duck lips, false eyelashes, tattoos, anorexia, piercings. I think I'd like to ask them, not a woman in a burkini "What is it that you think is so wrong with women's bodies that their natural form has to be hidden? What kind of pressure are you under to conform? Wouldn't you like to be free?

And the suggstion that covering up implies a judgement that women's bodies are offensive and men can't control themselves? - that suggestion seems to make a lot of assumptions about religious observation. Many religious rules function simply as an opportunity to turn yourself towards god at various times of the day - when you get dressed, when you eat, etc. It almost doesn't matter what the rule is. Following it is just a chance to make a small rededication in your faith

Glad to see it’s not just me who was feeling that, thank you!

God what a snobbish comment. Perhaps these young women enjoy their fake tan and eyelashes, perhaps they enjoy expressing themselves with tattoos. I know this thread is all about how marvellous it is to see women covered up in ‘modest’ clothing but there’s absolutely no need to be bitchy about other women. And you’re comparing anorexia to piercings?!!

The vast majority of religions are patriarchal crap.

I couldn't care less what others wear

The eyelashes and fake tans are fashionable. Those girls and women are making a choice. They're not going against a religious instruction if they choose not to wear them/do that. It's about freedom of expression. Sadly, in many countries, women don't have this.

But I’m making a choice, we can’t compare a Muslim woman living in the UK to iran or under isis or the taliban. Women are making choices all up and down the country on how they present themselves, some are influenced by social media and the Kardashian’s and some by their faith. Why is my faith influencing my choice such a bad thing?

I never said your choice was a bad thing, @Mvslimah - please do not accuse me of that. Thank you.
You make your choice. These women make theirs. Fortunately, in this country, both are tolerated.
And that is all I have to say to you.

That’s fine but conflating women in iran or wherever with Muslim women in the UK is deeply problematic

Why would anyone give a shit what (in this country) a minority group are wearing, unless you are coming from a place of 'privilege'?

But since younasked! , Assuming you are Muslim/Jewish..you do not need strangers policing your attire...it's none of anyone's business!

What a strange post!

So when there are threads about 10/11/12 yo girls wanting to wax/shave because they're embarrassed or bullied or shamed , are those girls making a choice?

There are women that won't put their bins out without makeup on , don't tell me that is a completely free choice and not because someone somewhere made them feel completely crap about the way they look naturally.

Or the hundreds of sneery posts about women letting themselves go because they don't wear make up, put 10 potions on their face, have their hair done this and that way , have put weight on ,still wear Uggs or whatever and so on.

There's just as many standards, expectations and rules about how women should look in the UK , just for societal not religious reasons. Luckily, we can ignore them a lot easier and the backlash is not violent/murder.

The vast majority of religions are patriarchal crap.

Hang on a minute.

Calling people's religion patriarchal crap = fine

Expressing criticism of makeup and fake tan = not fine?

To be fair, some religious interpretations are awfully patriarchal and anorexia is a mental disorder not a trend (maybe BBL would have been a more appropriate example). But I just find it funny that you're upset about pp and make up. Not that deep.

* but since you asked:

Why is my faith influencing my choice such a bad thing?

You asked what people would be thinking so we're being honest (and wouldn't say anything rude to you In public).

It feels oppressive to me that women have to cover up for men. At least, the reply my (Muslim) brother gave me was that it prevents men from being tempted. Frankly, it's not particularly flattering for men either.

When I see men on the beach in swim shorts, and women sitting covered in black from head to toe on swelteringly hot days, it feels like a double standard. I support your right to wear whatever you want, equally, I have the right to feel slightly uncomfortable about parts of the underlying rationale.