To ask if you have a problem with the burkini?

[Mvslimah]

Honest answers please

would you give a woman (maybe Muslim maybe Jewish) a wide berth if you saw them wearing a burkini or modest (Ie fully covered) swimsuit at a pool?

if you see a woman wearing one do you give it a second thought or is it just a meh, who cares?

tia

You think?

What I found weird in Qatar (not away from the beach - women and men were wearing pretty much the same thing with the same amount of coverage away from the beach, unless thexwinan chose to cover her face and or hands, which was not the majority) .... Was that women were in the beach - not even wearing a burkini - but wearing an abaya, head scarf etc. .... While the man with them was wearing shorts and a short sleeve polo shirt.

I have to say I did think wtf.

So "modest" dressing is required for women at all times in public, but not men.

If the men had also worn their usual thobe and headscarf on the beach (with the accompanying level of inconvenience for a beach) - absolutely fine with me. But they didn't.

To make it even more wtf, when I was in west Africa a Dutch guy told me he was told off for wearing shorts in Ivory Coast - due to them not being modest. So clearly strict interpretation means no showing off your (even lower) legs for men in shorts. Yet this was fine for many of the men on the beach in Qatar, while their wives were stuck in an abaya , only able to paddle a bit holding the hem up.

If you want to dress modestly - make it males and females; only way it's equal.

Though tbh, with polygyny/multiple wives to one man built into the religion (though I understand it's not that common depending on the country); how is it ever equal anyway. I know theoretically the wife/wives don't have to stay if he does that (?) but ateotd it's not easy to leave for a no of reasons.

Anyway on a purely "see a woman in a Burkini at the beach or pool' without thinking a out deeper significance .... I wouldn't give a fuck and would not avoid her or judge her.

I would be glad she had the opportunity to swim, rather than only paddling at the most in an abaya.

I'm very fair skinned and can't be bothered with sunscreen so I wear a rash vest with at least elbow length sleeves and lycra leggings regularly myself anyway. The only difference is the lack of skirt.

Yet this was fine for many of the men on the beach in Qatar

Also in Dubai.

(I don't know if they were Qatari/Emirati people or Muslim people visiting from other countries).

You could just describe your swimsuit as "full coverage" or your dresses as "long" "long sleeved"

There are other meanings of "modest" e.g unassuming in the estimation of one's abilities or achievements or humble. It's almost "immodest" (in the sense of those meanings) to make such a thing about wearing "modest" clothes

I assume none of the women objecting to the word modest clothing buy clothes from high street shops that have a modest clothing section?

Well swimming in an abaya is stupid and dangerous, I know where I used to live in Saudi women did the same unless it was a private beach and they wore ‘modest swimwear’. There is a school of thought, most likely in this region where they have a similar school of jurisprudence that burquinis aren’t modest enough it probably has to do with that, but you can get some very baggy ones and swim dresses that basically look like abayas but aren’t deadly in the water, so hopefully women would wear that now

i won’t go into multiple wives here

SaulSobieski
Out of interest did you manage to find any nice rash vests? Most of the ones I've seen have been quite plain and sporty.

But it’s not just a long sleeved swim suit because that makes it seem like a normal cozzie with long sleeves… I used modest because that’s what I type into google if I’m looking to buy one. I doesn’t imply you are immodest

*it doesn’t imply

Thet weren't attempting to swim in an abaya, they couldn't, they were just paddling the the very edge of the surf. That's my point.

It was very limiting and inconvenient; while their husbands were in shorts a BD a short sleeved polo.shirt.

I would be glad to see a Muslim woman in a Burkini compared to that; at least she can swim and enjoy the water properly.

Honestly first thought that pops into my head is it's a pretty good way of reducing cancer risk and sun damage to skin.

Interesting. So how would you judge my daughter? She was raised in London by two white middle class parents; my husband is an agnostic, I'm an atheist, and my mum was a very committed Christian. I was careful to never indoctrinate my daughter in any way. She had a very active social life during her teens and 20s, had boyfriends from about 14, drank as much as anyone else during her teens and at university, dabbled in various drugs, had lots of sexual relationships.

She loved studying and went on to do a masters before travelling for a year. My daughter then lived in Egypt for a while and ended up moving to Jordan three and a half years ago. She had often said that she was looking for something 'more important' in her life, and she studied a number of religions during her 20s. She met her husband two and a half years ago and it was clear from the outset that they are soulmates. She converted to Islam about 18 months ago, having learnt a great deal about the religion. We wondered if her husband had pressured her in any way to convert, and talked to him about it at length, when he asked my husbands permission to ask her to marry him. It was clear that he had put no pressure on her at all to convert and I wasn't surprised by her decision because she had already told me that she thought mush of the religion made sense to her. We'd spent quite a lot of time with her husband before there was even a suggestion of her converting, and it was lovely to see that he just adores her for who she is. He knows all about her past and accepts it without hesitation. My daughter's decision to wear a hijab was entirely her choice and She has said many times that she finds the way she dresses now is liberating.

As an atheist I don't profess to understand her decision to convert to any religion, whether Islam, Christianity, or anything else, but she has never been anywhere near as happy, calm, or contented as she is now. Her husband cherishes her and is genuinely a very good man. As a mother, I can't ask for any more for her.

Some people do wear them for that reason.

Was Nigella Lawson not one of them.

They do tend to be sporty/surf-y.

Amazon has some nice ones.... Not getting onto the ethical issues of Amazon.

I swim in different pools/ sessions/ settings with varying intentions and choose my swimwear accordingly. In a 5⁰C lake in winter, it's full neoprene including a hood so only my face is uncovered. I'm also happy to wear bikinis at the other end of the scale. I often use a rash vest for sun protection if outside, or if I CBA to incur shaving rash, or if I'm having more of a splash session with the children and I'm in and out of the water because it's more of a consistent feeling on the skin. One pool I go to is in a very mixed community; I went one day last year wearing (clean) cycling shorts over my cossie because I was protecting some chaffing incurred while running. In some pools, my swimwear choices are normal, in some, they are more unusual.

My sons wear shortie wet suits as they feel the cold easily.

Choices of practical swimwear that facilitates swimming is a good thing for all.
Practical headwear that facilitates other sports such as running are also positive, and inclusive.

The navy and gold Lyra one you pictured is gorgeous @Mvslimah
I'm not religious, but I'm SO tempted by that.... no sunscreen faff is my ideal!
Also, would you just put flip flops on with that, dry out, and wear to a beach bar for lunch for instance?

Sorry if I've got that all wrong.

I would notice, but not particularly care. The only time I have been bothered is when I have seen ladies come into the pool with full on clothes. Swimwear fabric that is not too voluminous seems the best option. Honestly, a
baggy shorts and t-shirt combo does irritate me as it just seems less hygienic and more prone to debris ending up in the pool..

You might want to read a bit more about the plight of women in Afghanistan or the protests by women in Iran. Link below might help.

As for women not shaving their legs - at most they might get an odd look.

https://www.womensvoicesnow.org/mahsa-amini?gclid=Cj0KCQjwu-KiBhCsARIsAPztUF3eBa5SMqdElh0URUJHeFRKcMp00IW7OBSzSrCRNpD1fQEdoygoRQQaAmlNEALw_wcB

Yet you continue to use the word "modest" despite being told how offensive it is? This point was raised several pages ago.

No I don’t.

It is nice isn’t it, on the pricey side, if you do get one they come up a bit small, so size up or you’ll be like me going down the water slides in dubai and the poppers flying open. Yeah so I’d Chuck on some flip flops and dry out just in that or if I went to a restaurant or a mooch around the shops say if on hols, I might put a sarong around or maybe a light chiffon/ linen kimono style shirt or something, big sunnies and a hat to protect my face from the sun,

maybe something like below, matched to the swimsuit of course

That is pretty much the only reason that I as a non Muslim, pale skinned, red head in my late 60s wouldn't wear a burkini. I would like to wear one but it would cause more attention and speculation than a conventional swimsuit so if I have to wear a swimsuit I get one with the most coverage I can get away with. I usually just keep my clothes on as i rarely go in swimming pools (it must be at least 5 years). My husband would probably prefer me to wear a bikini. I am not overweight, by the way, my physique is pretty good for my age tbh but I see no reason prove that to anyone else.

because that is how the items are referred to, it’s how the brands who make them market them and I’m also using it in my explanation to you why I’m actually using the term in the first instance.

ive never encountered people being so triggered by this term, im not triggered by a Jewish woman explaining the M word to me, she wouldn’t consider my wearing trousers to be ‘modest’ (sorry couldn’t help using it here) but that’s her beliefs not mine…

I wouldn't have a problem with a woman wearing it, no. But I would if it were a little girl because I'd worry the message she was being sent, that in order to keep herself safe from men, and in order to be considered 'modest', she has to cover up her entire body. It sends the wrong message. Teens/adult women, go for it. I'd barely notice. But it does break my heart when I see little girls in them and in hijab.