To ask if you have a problem with the burkini?

[Mvslimah]

Honest answers please

would you give a woman (maybe Muslim maybe Jewish) a wide berth if you saw them wearing a burkini or modest (Ie fully covered) swimsuit at a pool?

if you see a woman wearing one do you give it a second thought or is it just a meh, who cares?

tia

Exactly! It’s a difficult word to translate

People say that all the time tbh

I would look
And judge
And feel sorry

Because of these women were born in a different country without the islam and their misogynist beliefs: they would be able to be free

So yeah

Absolutely 💯

I am always interested about "free choice" because rarely is that the case.

But in the UK women are completely free to not shave, lose weight etc. I exercise for health reasons and try to keep within a healthy weight again for my health. Shaving I am lax with but would go swimming regardless. I am not presenting myself for the male gaze, but more for society in general I guess.

So as others have said, being "modest" in the UK, not wanting to stand out would be fitting in not making yourself stand out.

I don't know anyone well enough from that culture to be able to comment knowledgeably on that, but I thought some people don't mind (pr prefer) a burqua (and/or burquini), so I don't think you should impose your own Western views on other cultures and say they're inferior.
And as far as shaving their legs, can you imagine if women in the UK didn't? Or underarms? Or upper lips? I think the sexism is just as rife, just not overt.

Burqa is the traditional powder blue head to toe covering of Afghanistan and some parts of Pakistan.

the niqab is the black face covering often worn with a black abaya, or jilbab, that’s what women in Saudi wore.

the burqini is just the name for a ‘modest’ or full coverage swimsuit targeted at Muslim women. So yes I’d imagine most who wear a burqini in the UK or in general are doing so freely. The notion of swimming wouldn’t be thinkable under the taliban.

the original question was around the face veil or the niqab and do I believe people wearing it have the choice… there may well be some instances in the UK of family pressure but everyone I’ve met who wears it has made a conscious choice and most of their husbands hate it. However that’s the UK, and obviously the women in Afghanistan do not have a choice and there was a time in Saudi that women there didn’t really have a choice either

Maybe women only areas? To feel the sun on your skin? Really? As opposed to all women having the right to go where they want whether in a bikini or burkini. The vitamin D issue is a serious one that remains a big issue for women and especially babies in the Asian community.

It’s beyond crass to equate wearing a burka with a desire to hide your PJs or lack of satirical flair. Liking the burkini as a style rather than representative of a philosophy is also odd.

I usually swim in long shorts and a long sleeved rash vest as am so pale is sunburn that is my problem. I am nearly as covered up as someone in a burkini, although mine are form fitting as I couldn’t tolerate flapping, other than when I change in the open air at the side of the beech or lake when I love a short burst of air bathing. That’s the fundamental difference between what the different outfits signify. Mine comes with more choice and no implication I am modest or unable to mix with male strangers. That said I would always vocally defend any woman’s rights to wear what they want and despair of countries like France as their lack of tolerance will imprison the very women they proposed would be liberated by the law changes while encouraging more general anti Muslim abuse, like the OP suffered.

But even then the term hijab and halal are grossly over simplified when used in the wider British vernacular so I don’t think adding more Arabic terms is going to help anyone. Hijab doesn’t actually mean a headscarf as most think, it’s not even in the Quran as such, it just means partition and halal is commonly understood to mean meat but it means permissible in the larger context.

i used modest because frankly if I’m looking for a swimsuit, I type in modest swimsuit and that’s what generates my preferred style, likewise with summer dresses, event dresses etc etc.

People say that all the time tbh
They do, and it's also what's underlying a lot of comments through the thread.

The ideas that a woman opting to cover up is a sign people find women's bodies offensive, that a woman choosing to wear more than small swimwear goes against British values of freedom and tolerance, that women choosing to cover up aren't really making their own choices etc runs throughout the thread.

you can make that argument to an extent with Jewish and Islamic dress… to an extent but the laws (Jewish and islamic) are pretty clear on dress. But islamically one of the reasons to cover your hair and chest for women is to be known and recognised as a ‘believing woman’ aka Muslim woman. So a large part is identify politics

I don't give a damn what anyone wears but I do take exception to the phrase "modest" swimwear. What? As opposed to all the "slutty" swimwear any woman not in a burkini is wearing?

OP ‘there may well be some family pressure’ is a glib summary of the enormous pressure placed on girls and women within the Muslim community to do all sorts of things including wearing certain clothes. I loathe the impact I see on bright capable teenage girls who always are subject to religious judgement across all faiths. In the UK this is a big class or social divide issue too but too many of those girls at the bottom of that divide get little control over their lives.

Well, she’s free to wear what she wants and she’s right to an extent you do draw attention to yourself, especially in overtly Islamic clothing like the jilbab and face veil in very white parts of fhe country but a large part of the commandment to dress ‘modestly’ or to draw your veil across your chest and to not expose yourself to anyone other than non women and men you can’t marry and your husband, is to be recognised as a Muslim woman. So being visually identifiable as a Muslim woman, is important. But at times it’s very uncomfortable so I can understand why she’d want to shy away from that

@ShandaLear I never said that women shouldn't not have the right to wear what they want. Do not misrepresent what I said.
My point was that it is healthy to air bathe, to get sun and wind on your skin. Rather than wear burkinis, some women maybe could use women only areas if they feel that way, rather than compromise their health.

I do beg your pardon, @ShandaLear , my last point was to @Handpickled

It doesn't bother me; it invokes pity and the hope that wearing it was indeed a choice, not forced upon her.

Not remotely bothered. Are you concerned that the wearer might be concealing an explosive device?

Genuine question, @Mvslimah - so it's to identify a woman as Muslim. Why aren't men so identified? I teach many Muslim teenagers. I can always tell who the Muslim girls are, by veils and long black over garments. Not so the boys. They wear the regular uniform. Same situation with the men in my town, regular western clothes. No identification as Muslim apart from the occasional one with a small head covering.

I was exclusively talking about adult women who wear a face veil. All of whom that I know have chosen as adults and their husbands and a lot of their family do not like it.

what you’re referring to is largely a social class issue to do with education and is way to complex to delve into here. There are many families who will take the approach of puberty and you cover but there’s nothing that then about ‘covering’ that would intrinsically stop a young girl from achieving. What you’re talking about is mosque education held in higher regard than state education, no encouragement for school exams, maybe even the opposite, removed from school at the nearest opportunity, and groomed for marriage, to perhaps a relative from back home very very young, so choice there is a mere illusion, it may not be a forced marriage as such but there’s never really been an option to say no. In these circumstances what women do or do not have to wear is the least of their problems

Well they should be, that’s why they are told to also dress modestly, nothing form fitting and covered from the navel to the knee and keep a beard, there are certain haircuts they can’t have either. I think like with many cultures because of the patriarchy men’s appearances aren’t policed as heavily as women’s, and you can see that manifested in some Muslim families

Doesn't bother me but they do look like the grim reaper a bit

Muslim women couldn’t wear a traditional bathing suit in women only areas anyway… maybe a swimsuit with board shorts but that’s about it

True, because the Muslim boys are dressed exactly the same as the other boys, no difference. The girls are really set apart.
It's very noticeable, but as you say may be the community rather than the religion.

I see muslim men in our area wearing skull caps and loose trousers and overshirts or robes, especially on Fridays.

Muslims came from a wide variety of racial and cultural background therefore dress will be as influenced by culture as religion.

I welcome new options! Just come back from a holiday in the far east where people of all nationalities were wearing versions of modest swimwear. After a couple of days I started to think that the various tops and bottoms were a good, practical way to avoid sunburn and invested in a rash vest for snorkelling.
A friend in the uk has started swimming in board shorts and a rash vest because she can’t be bothered with a restrictive and more revealing cozzie. Apparently that’s becoming popular amongst younger people now.