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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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66
vera99 · 08/05/2023 16:59

Graham Smith as ever makes a wonderfully reasonable and articulate account of his arrest and the events that led up to it. Their membership and funding has increased by 10s of thousands, and they have spearheaded the debate of how we govern our country and who rules us. He is very brave as a huge amount of pressure will no doubt bear down on the leadership team from the forces of the state now. But rather than caving in he seems invigorated by the public;'s response to what happened. Camilla looked very tired last night at the concert I'm not sure that she has the energy and stamina for the role she had been catapulted into. We shall see. If the 'constitutional' monarchy can't take an unfolding landscape of ongoing persistent peaceful protest then it doesn't deserve to continue to exist in a democratic free society.

Anti-monarchy arrests are 'affront to democracy' - Graham Smith

"We've had four months of conversationswith the police... we were immediately surrounded by large numbers of police officers who detained us then arrested us...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Iz6OxRWrdM

Roussette · 08/05/2023 17:22

@vera99 Thank you for the link. Graham Smith who has been completely reasonable with this for 2 decades, and has been interviewed on many of the main news channels over the years... he put it very well.

IClaudine · 08/05/2023 18:00

pointythings · 08/05/2023 16:47

@GoldenRetriever4 it doesn't matter that one group gave the police 'an excuse'. The new law was drafted in the knowledge that it would be used exactly as it was on Saturday. And that would have happened anyway because we have a party in government who will not tolerate dissent. They brought in voter ID to suppress votes for the opposition, they brought in the new law on protests to suppress protests against their corruption and their policies. This government knows what it's doing and intends to do it. They need no excuses.

Yep.

Also, to accomplish change, some protests will be disruptive! The suffragettes did not win votes for women by protesting politely.

cakeorwine · 08/05/2023 18:09

Gandhi used a lot of non violence in his protests. I wonder what would happen if the protestors didn't lock on but just allowed themselves to be dragged away?

I don't think holding up traffic helps anyone's cause. It can seek to alienate people from a cause and can cause very negative headlines.

I wonder what the current Tory party would have done with Gandhi if they were still ruling India?

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LadyWithLapdog · 08/05/2023 18:14

Tienanmen square protest wasn’t great for traffic either.

cakeorwine · 08/05/2023 18:23

This is an interesting article on non-violent protest

Why Non-Violent Protests Work | Psychology Today

Lots of things that are relevant to the police actions.

"So, while the protesters might be rioting because they feel they have important needs that aren’t being met (seeking to achieve them via violence, or the threat of it), third parties might come to view the damage inflicted by the protest as being more important or harmful (as they generate a larger, or more legitimate need).
The net result of that violence is now that third parties side against the protesters, rather than with them.

By contrast, a nonviolent protest does not create as large a need on the part of those it targets; it doesn’t destroy property or harm people.

If the protesters have needs they want to see met and they aren’t inflicting costs on others, this can yield more support for the protester’s side.

However, as we have seen, violence against others, even disagreeable others, who are not themselves behaving violently can rally support from third parties, as they might begin to worry that threats to free speech (or other important issues) are more harmful than the opinions and words we find disagreeable (again, hitting someone creates more need than talking does).

Why Non-Violent Protests Work

Violence creates needs in others, reducing your side's social support.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pop-psych/201702/why-non-violent-protests-work

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vera99 · 08/05/2023 19:03

Graham Smith and the other Republic leaders have been told there will be no further action. Looks like it was a misjudged operational decision that has backfired in terms of long term outcomes. I can't imagine the Met wishing to have increased support for Republic which is what has happened.

https://twitter.com/GrahamSmith_/status/1655627714395615243

We have just been told that the police will be taking no further action. This has been a disgraceful episode and we will be speaking to lawyers about taking legal action. I also expect a full inquiry into why they repeatedly lied to us and who authorised the arrests.

https://twitter.com/GrahamSmith_/status/1655627714395615243

JenniferBooth · 08/05/2023 19:20

They got them out of the way for the Coronation. So mission accomplished.

The litmus test will be whether they act in the same way the next time XR or Just Stop Oil block a road and stop people from going to work or medical appointments.

vera99 · 08/05/2023 19:23

The Last King ? Led by Donkeys have joined the movement.

Charles the Last?

It's time for a national conversation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHmR5UPcaVo

pointythings · 08/05/2023 19:27

@vera99 I reckon this was always the plan - stop them from demonstrating, put on a show of force and then quietly not charge anyone. Pour encourager les autres and all that.

vera99 · 08/05/2023 19:40

Yup but they couldn't stop a couple of thousands of others coming along and the furore that arbitrarily arresting the leaders would cause. Had they left them to the screened off area in Trafalgar Square separated from the crowds effectively they would have been mostly ignored by the media, and it would be seen as an honourable example of the plurality of dissent in Britain and the sign of a healthy democracy.

The real danger for the monarchy now is that a broad coalition of the disaffected, which is growing all the time will see the institution as a lightning rod for their anger. A reverse Jeremy Corbyn for the young as it were facing protests wherever they go. Charles missed the perfect opportunity to have a truly slimmed down succession and try to pivot to the European model.

Oblomov23 · 08/05/2023 19:43

I can't believe this new law. Disgusting.

Novella4 · 08/05/2023 19:44

The international reputational damage will be hard to repair

The image of two elderly people , tired and hobbling with the gaudy crowns full of stolen gems is just too perfect a metaphor for the monarchy itself in 2023

Combined with the outrageous treatment of peaceful ( but annoyingly informed and articulate ) protesters - so much for the 'soft power ' line

Novella4 · 08/05/2023 19:48

What a climb down .
And quick too.
Symon Hill was arrested at a proclamation after Elizabeth died.
His crime ?
Saying 'who elected him?' aloud

He waited weeks to be told no charge

It is better to be part of an organisation. They pick off individuals too easily

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/05/2023 19:55

JenniferBooth · 08/05/2023 19:20

They got them out of the way for the Coronation. So mission accomplished.

The litmus test will be whether they act in the same way the next time XR or Just Stop Oil block a road and stop people from going to work or medical appointments.

Accurately put ... though for true equivalence they'd need to descend on ER/Just Stop OIL/whoever as soon as they arrive, rather than bleating that they can't arrest them unless a crime's actually been committed

JenniferBooth · 08/05/2023 19:57

@Puzzledandpissedoff Kevin Sullivan said exactly that on Talk TV yesterday I channel hopped to see who was actually giving this proper coverage

Novella4 · 08/05/2023 19:59

One thing is clear
The 'royals ' know they are on borrowed time and they know opposition is growing and they don't seem to have a clue about how to address it

Here's a hint Charles : pay back all that your shiny hat party cost the state
That would help

HeadacheEarthquake · 08/05/2023 20:20

Novella4 · 08/05/2023 19:59

One thing is clear
The 'royals ' know they are on borrowed time and they know opposition is growing and they don't seem to have a clue about how to address it

Here's a hint Charles : pay back all that your shiny hat party cost the state
That would help

It wouldn't make the tiniest of nicks in his fortune to donate the cost of the coronation to any NHS charity or help for struggling citizens. (Or subjects as he might think of them as)

EndOfEternity · 08/05/2023 20:33

HeadacheEarthquake · 08/05/2023 20:20

It wouldn't make the tiniest of nicks in his fortune to donate the cost of the coronation to any NHS charity or help for struggling citizens. (Or subjects as he might think of them as)

It might be that much of his their fortune is tied up in antiques, jewels and property. In which case people will argue that we can’t let them sell an old master’ or ‘a castle’ to obey for these occasions, as these are national treasures which need to stay British.
But … I’d argue our ‘British’ water, railways, power infrastructure and more has been sold of and is far more valuable to the population. Plus our NHS is being sold off and yet people still vote Tory. So PLEASE make them sell some of it off to fund themselves! It’d only be fair.

cakeorwine · 08/05/2023 20:40

JenniferBooth · 08/05/2023 19:20

They got them out of the way for the Coronation. So mission accomplished.

The litmus test will be whether they act in the same way the next time XR or Just Stop Oil block a road and stop people from going to work or medical appointments.

I wonder if the police have heard of the Streisand effect?

For this is exactly what they have achieved.

People are talking about it

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cakeorwine · 08/05/2023 20:42

"Rishi Sunak backed the police on Monday, saying: “The police are operationally independent of government – they will make these decisions based on what they think is best.
“Actually, I’m grateful to the police and everyone who played a part in ensuring that this weekend has gone so well, so successfully and so safely. That was an extraordinary effort by so many people and I’m grateful to them for all their hard work.”"

Of course it was a success if you arrest people who you don't want others to see.

The police have damaged their reputation even more.

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cakeorwine · 08/05/2023 20:55

I wonder how much of the media will pick up the fact that no charges have been raised?

Or will this bit of news just slide so people are left with the impression that people from Republic were arrested?

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LadyWithLapdog · 08/05/2023 21:24

@cakeorwine Yes, you don’t see that as a headline. I don’t expect those faux-concerned about the horses are going to come back and say “oh, okay, maybe I was a bit of a twat on this”.

cakeorwine · 08/05/2023 21:36

Met regrets the arrest

Coronation: Met Police 'regrets' arresting six anti-monarchy protesters - BBC News

Statement

UPDATE: Arrests made during policing operation for the Coronation | Metropolitan Police

It was not clear at the time that at least one of the group stopped had been engaging with police Protest Liaison Team officers ahead of the event. The Protest Liaison Team were not the arresting officers nor were they present in St Martin’s Lane at the time of the arrest.
The investigation team have now fully examined the items seized and reviewed the full circumstances of the arrest. Those arrested stated the items would be used to secure their placards, and the investigation has been unable to prove intent to use them to lock on and disrupt the event. This evening all six have had their bail cancelled and no further action will be taken. We regret that those six people arrested were unable to join the wider group of protesters in Trafalgar Square and elsewhere on the procession route.

I don't believe one word of this for a moment

Graham Smith attended an anti-monarchy protest prior to the Commonwealth Service

Coronation: Met Police 'regrets' arresting six anti-monarchy protesters

Anti-royal group Republic wants a "full inquiry" into the arrests on the morning of the Coronation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65527007

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HeadacheEarthquake · 08/05/2023 21:39

EndOfEternity · 08/05/2023 20:33

It might be that much of his their fortune is tied up in antiques, jewels and property. In which case people will argue that we can’t let them sell an old master’ or ‘a castle’ to obey for these occasions, as these are national treasures which need to stay British.
But … I’d argue our ‘British’ water, railways, power infrastructure and more has been sold of and is far more valuable to the population. Plus our NHS is being sold off and yet people still vote Tory. So PLEASE make them sell some of it off to fund themselves! It’d only be fair.

At this point either or, but as the population don't get anything from said jewels...

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