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Whaeanui · 06/05/2023 16:12

If the police can now legally arrest people for thought crime, they would need to be able to know our thoughts

People often speak or write their thoughts down. Then other people know what they think. 😐

Original poster
cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 16:13

UK security minister defends new anti-protest laws before coronation | UK news | The Guardian

The security minister, Tom Tugendhat, defended the new laws, which include a 12-month prison sentence for protesters who block roads and a six-month prison sentence or unlimited fine for anyone who locks on to others, objects or buildings. Police will also be able to stop and search protesters they suspect are setting out to cause “disruption”.

Official warning letters have been sent to anti-monarchists planning to stage peaceful protests at the coronation, but the cabinet minister insisted people would still have the “liberty to protest”.

UK security minister defends new anti-protest laws before coronation

Tom Tugendhat insists people will still have ‘liberty to protest’ after government fast-tracked legislation

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/03/uk-security-minister-defends-new-anti-protest-laws-coronation

OP posts:
pointythings · 06/05/2023 16:15

@3dogsandarabbit not true. I'm not a UK national. I live in the UK, but Charles III is not my King. Willem Alexander of the Netherlands is.

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:16

cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 16:11

If the police can now legally arrest people for thought crime, they would need to be able to know our thoughts

If I said to to the police that I was thinking of going to a protest, they could arrest me.

You wouldn’t be arrested unless you already had multiple arrests and it were a violation of the court order that suspended a custodial sentence.

Even if it were illegal to protest (it isnt), your comment is not thought crime. That’s confessing intent to commit a crime to the police.

DuncinToffee · 06/05/2023 16:17

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:10

Thought crime means certain thoughts are a crime. It is a term coined by George Orwell.

The post alleged that the “policing bill really has been drafted to make arrest for thought crime legal”

If the police can now legally arrest people for thought crime, they would need to be able to know our thoughts.

Show quote history

The police had had in depth discussions with the protesters (Republic Staff) about the nature of their peaceful protest. They knew their 'thoughts'

And still they were arrested.

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:18

Whaeanui · 06/05/2023 16:12

If the police can now legally arrest people for thought crime, they would need to be able to know our thoughts

People often speak or write their thoughts down. Then other people know what they think. 😐

Then that is an issue of criminal speech or writing, ie like hate speech. You can think all day long the worst things but when you say it or write it, the crime isn’t thought crime, it’s speech/writing crimes like how we have for hate speech.

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:18

DuncinToffee · 06/05/2023 16:17

The police had had in depth discussions with the protesters (Republic Staff) about the nature of their peaceful protest. They knew their 'thoughts'

And still they were arrested.

Show quote history

They were not arrested for their thoughts.

Original poster
cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 16:19

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:16

You wouldn’t be arrested unless you already had multiple arrests and it were a violation of the court order that suspended a custodial sentence.

Even if it were illegal to protest (it isnt), your comment is not thought crime. That’s confessing intent to commit a crime to the police.

Show quote history

Have you read the new protest laws?

How does the new Policing Act affect my protest rights? - Liberty (libertyhumanrights.org.uk)

You can be arrested and charged if you breach conditions on the protest, even if you didn't know about those conditions

How does the new Policing Act affect my protest rights? - Liberty

As the Government’s Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act comes into effect, we explain the main protest law changes and what they mean for protesters.

https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/advice_information/pcsc-policing-act-protest-rights/

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 06/05/2023 16:19

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:18

They were not arrested for their thoughts.

Show quote history

They weren't arrested for thinking 'not my king' aloud?

Original poster
cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 16:21

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:18

Then that is an issue of criminal speech or writing, ie like hate speech. You can think all day long the worst things but when you say it or write it, the crime isn’t thought crime, it’s speech/writing crimes like how we have for hate speech.

Show quote history

Criminal speech?

I don't agree with the Monarchy.
I might attend the protests about it.

That could be enough for the police to arrest me because they might have a reasonable belief that I could cause disruption. They don't need suspicion. Just a reasonable belief.

OP posts:
HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:21

DuncinToffee · 06/05/2023 16:19

They weren't arrested for thinking 'not my king' aloud?

Show quote history

“Thinking out loud” is a type of speaking, not thinking. And no they were not arrested for either of them.

pointythings · 06/05/2023 16:22

I think most people in the UK do not understand just how far the new bill goes. And they won't find out until they want to protest for something they believe in.

Deathbyfluffy · 06/05/2023 16:22

cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 09:17

Distrust in the police is low. This just serves to make it lower. And to make people angrier.

Surely you mean trust in the police is low?
Distrust being low is a good thing

QueenMegan · 06/05/2023 16:23

Absolute bastards.
Off with their heads

DuncinToffee · 06/05/2023 16:23

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:21

“Thinking out loud” is a type of speaking, not thinking. And no they were not arrested for either of them.

Show quote history

So what were they arrested for then?

Original poster
cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 16:23

pointythings · 06/05/2023 16:22

I think most people in the UK do not understand just how far the new bill goes. And they won't find out until they want to protest for something they believe in.

This.

OP posts:
HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:24

cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 16:21

Criminal speech?

I don't agree with the Monarchy.
I might attend the protests about it.

That could be enough for the police to arrest me because they might have a reasonable belief that I could cause disruption. They don't need suspicion. Just a reasonable belief.

Show quote history

I don’t think it’s that easy. They have to have grounds that you intend to do an illegal action like glue or lock yourself to something, build a barricade, fling paint. If they arrest you anyway, you’d have the right to file a suit for unlawful detention.

amoobaa · 06/05/2023 16:25

cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 08:44

Arresting people who are leaders of a cause is the best way to increase support for that cause from people who may not have been too bothered about it but had some belief in that cause.

@cakeorwine THIS!

Rightly or wrongly I wasn’t feeling particularly strongly about it (I felt I had a bit more research and learning to do before drawing definite conclusions…) but this is vile… You’ve hit the nail in the head here… I wasn’t too bothered. Now I’m incredibly bothered.

Original poster
cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 16:25

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:21

“Thinking out loud” is a type of speaking, not thinking. And no they were not arrested for either of them.

Show quote history

The people in the Republic van were arrested for "having a lock on device" as far as I can tell.

A lock on device could be something to secure the van or the placards.

But that was enough to arrest them.

I am so glad that this is waking people up to what has happened to our rights over the last few years.

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 06/05/2023 16:25

pointythings · 06/05/2023 16:22

I think most people in the UK do not understand just how far the new bill goes. And they won't find out until they want to protest for something they believe in.

This is coming from a government that wants to get rid of the ECHR

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:26

DuncinToffee · 06/05/2023 16:23

So what were they arrested for then?

Show quote history

It was reported that the handful of protesters that were arrested had brought illegal items to the protest- specifically lock on devices and paint.

The law means that the police are empowered to stop and search protesters “for items like padlocks, superglue and digging tools if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos,”. Individuals found with such items and who intend on using them will also face criminal charges.

DuncinToffee · 06/05/2023 16:27

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:26

It was reported that the handful of protesters that were arrested had brought illegal items to the protest- specifically lock on devices and paint.

The law means that the police are empowered to stop and search protesters “for items like padlocks, superglue and digging tools if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos,”. Individuals found with such items and who intend on using them will also face criminal charges.

Show quote history

And yo agree with that?

Original poster
cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 16:27

HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:26

It was reported that the handful of protesters that were arrested had brought illegal items to the protest- specifically lock on devices and paint.

The law means that the police are empowered to stop and search protesters “for items like padlocks, superglue and digging tools if they suspect they are setting out to cause chaos,”. Individuals found with such items and who intend on using them will also face criminal charges.

Show quote history

I think you are getting your protestors mixed up.

It seems there were Just stop oil protestors there as well.

What do you think the Republic staff were arrested for?

OP posts:
HadalyEve · 06/05/2023 16:29

cakeorwine · 06/05/2023 16:25

The people in the Republic van were arrested for "having a lock on device" as far as I can tell.

A lock on device could be something to secure the van or the placards.

But that was enough to arrest them.

I am so glad that this is waking people up to what has happened to our rights over the last few years.

Show quote history

Are you having a laugh? You don’t go to a protest and then lock your bundles of placards to a lamp post and vans come standard with their own locks.