To think British culture is 'fake' nice

[Wonderingmyhead]

First time posting.

Just for background, I've been living in the UK for a long time so I'm a fully integrated resident.

Before anyone asks why am I living here. I've made it my home here and have a family here (DH & DD) but I struggle to understand the whole 'let me know if you need help' in EVERY situation of my life eg any time we'd be doing something be it decorating or, more recently, had a baby. My friends/DH's side of family would all say 'let me know if you need help/we're here to help if you need anything' BUT there's is real intention behind it - just words.

Another one where people say we should meet up/go for a coffee and when I suggest it takes weeks in advance to schedule it and ends up being cancelled in the end anyway.

We had tonnes of people offering help when we had a baby and after getting home from the hospital and realising we don't have any milk etc I told my DH 'well we've had all these help offers' and he told me it's best we order one of those whoosh Tesco deliveries as he'd feel awkward for someone to be dropping shopping off to us without seeing the baby in return (we weren't ready at that point). And any other time I'd attempt to call upon someone's promise it just doesn't go anywhere.

The culture I come from is less polite (which I dislike) and more direct, but if someone offers help they mean it and will turn up at your door to help.

So help out a gal.

So I'm wondering is it just me who thinks this way or AIBU/pessimistic?

I'm British Asian and I hate asking for help (a British trait I think) but I'm happy to other help people in practical ways (lifts, shopping, cooking etc) as long as they don't take the piss.

I'm less good with emotional support e.g. my elderly neighbour has mental health issues and wants to talk to me for hours. After 5 minutes I am literally squirming to get away.

So if I offer help, it is genuine but within reason.

I'm British living in a blunter culture. It took me tine to separate my eyebrows from my hairline at first, because I couldn't believe what some people had said!

But now I'm totally with OP. There's a lot of nuance in English and when you're not used to it (anymore) it's quite exhausting! The "Let's meet for coffee" thing I can't be arsed with. Now if I meet a British person who says that to me, we organise eventually and they then cancel and it happens twice, I block them. I can't be doing with that nonsense any more.

Wait for this though: my kids receive feedback at school on how well they're able to talk to another child about a problem they have. They're supposed to directly go to the child and discuss it, rather than keeping it to themselves, ignoring it, finding others to play with (in the first instance). My Britishness hasn't diminished in that respect!!

It's specific to individuals whether or not the offer is genuine I'd say, but also it's specific to the relationship as to what and how much you could ask of someone, how much it would inconvenience them and how much you'd gain from it. It is also dependent on you being polite and reciprocating where possible in return - so in the specific example you gave, I'd say it's more that you would have been rude not inviting someone in to see the baby especially after asking them to do you a favour, and that's why your DP didn't want to ask, than because the offers weren't meant sincerely.

I wonder if perhaps you're a bit of a CF with your requests and that's why they're not being met - the issue being you're asking too much of a specific individual/relationship, rather than the issue being that you're asking anything at all.

Just to elaborate, in my particular case it was 24 hours after baby's birth which in itself was very difficult. Of course we wouldn't have hidden the baby or face for that matter, we just weren't ready to socialise/entertain which my DH assumed would be required had someone dropped off the shopping.

I have gone around to help with friends and family who've just had babies. I painted my nephew's nursery, and got a takeaway for us all. Drove 200 miles to take care of my friend when she was alone after her c section.

But the key was:

• very close friends.
• I knew specific struggles they were having - moving house etc. So I could volunteer to help with something specific because I knew enough about what was going on in their life to make a more specific offer.
• in many cases where I've helped, knowing that there was a shit husband at the back of things.

I agree with your husband that it would be a weird ask to ask for shopping but not even a single little peek at the baby. Either someone is close enough/good enough to say hello AND help, or they're not. Wanting to be alone means also dealing with everything alone.

Why is this thread turning in to a Russia/Ukraine thread?

To be fair, this isn't the first time I've heard this about my fellow Brits. And I can understand what the OP means. I have to admit though, I agree with your husband on the Whoosh delivery. It would be odd and rude not to show the baby to someone who'd turned up with groceries!

Such an interesting post, by the way. I am loving reading it!

I know it's a shame.

OP it really is dependent on individuals. There ARE Brits who do say what they mean.

I have a friend's step daughter staying precisely because I mean what I say. The nice thing is she has said she will have my son when he's older and I know she means it.

We went to her wedding four years ago. DH and her friends husband got talking about scouting. The guy say if they could ever help us they would.

Fast forward to this year. Our friends daughter is staying with them over the summer with scouts.

My friend is Dutch and lives in the Netherlands.

I find this reassuring and we both understand each other. But you need to find people on this wavelength. It's like any friendship really. It's finding your tribe. Weirdo Brits who actually mean what they say do exist. It's just hard to find us in the midst of the platitudes.

I think you've called it right. I think we would like to think we'd have the time/energy to help, but in reality we can't.

The long hours culture and number of people in the workforce rather than available for domestic duties means we just don't have enough time or energy.

We've all been on the treadmill so long that we can't fit anything else in.

When I went visited Bremen (in Germany), I was surprised. German directness was shocking but also refreshing. When they like you, they really do like you, when they offer to help, it means just that.

Also, I found relationships were refreshing as men and women were seen as more equal.

I was so used to getting hints and receiving hints, that I thought it would be rude to decline an invite but it seemed that in Bremen (Germany overall?) it was respected and no hurt feelings or holding grudges.

Yes I can or no I can't.

I don't if everywhere in Germany is like this though.

Any Germans on here that can verify this btw?

I've lived elsewhere for a number of years but am from the UK and am back here now. I think it might depend on your circle of friends, as I don't recognise what you describe.

My family has been pretty good at helping over the years (sometimes a bit too much!). And most invitations for coffee do end up in actually meeting in my experience. Exception being a friend who keeps cancelling, but she has a chronic health condition so I'm understanding about that.

Yeah I agree In s lot of ways

I'm British but live elsewhere and people are so much less flakey here. We arrange to meet and we meet. Also people don't mince their words as much but not in a rude way. People own their feelings and opinions without going round the houses trying to justify them or put caveats etc.

Another non Brit here. I think it’s true in some way - British people are very polite and nice in their language but it doesn’t mean that they like you and agree with you. You can’t make any certain conclusions from their language. They might mean to help you but might not. They might want to meet for coffee or might not. The difference is that other cultures won’t mention going for coffee at all unless they 100% mean it. It makes life very confusing. E.g you have a colleague who is always super nice to you and then you are the only one not invited to their birthday party. Or a school mum who’s always saying to you (and your child!): Oh you should come to ours to play sometime. But she never invites you to play (and before anyone comments she’s been to yours already and she happily invites other children and parents). I don’t mind her not inviting but why she says it regularly especially in front of the child? Why colleague can’t just be polite without any extra niceties? Basically people behave as they want to be friends in conversations but then their actions look very different.
I also feel that British people are particularly nice towards non Brits, it’s like they are making a point of being extra nice but in reality they are much more alert/ suspicious/ distant ( I struggle to find one right word tbh) towards foreigners. So quite often you have a very high level of nice language and zero intention to be friends at the same time. It’s ok if you don’t care and don’t keen to be friends. You just put your own level of niceties higher up and carry on in this mode. But if you want to make friends it’s very confusing and upsetting.

Eh? What are you on about?
My neighbours are lovely and helped us out. Even my boss brought his own trailer to help us move some furniture.
Any problem etc posted on our neighbourhood FB groups gets a lot of comments and people do help!
we're not a small village either.

Maybe the people around you suck. Nothing to do with them being British. make better friends?

Also I'm not British ... my husband is though,

I think you're broadly right in your assessment and I also think it's hard to argue logically against clear and forthright communication. But it's deeply culturally coded in me, like many British people. I once read a piece about how some cultures are 'askers' (fine to ask anything of someone else because they can just say no) and others are 'guessers' (rude to ask unless you already think the answer will be yes because saying no is rude and so you're forcing someone to be rude). I think some of that was what was going on in the difference between you and your partner about asking for groceries. Again, clearly all logic is on the side of the former - but I find it an excruciating way to operate. I'm very aware that this is my issue, particularly when interacting in international contexts, but I don't think I can completely shift my mindset on it because it's so ingrained and it's a way of operating that feels so natural and so much more comfortable to me.

I would also note that I don't think the 'we should get coffee', 'you should come over' etc is necessarily insincere as such, it's just said without much thought about the practicalities (realistically I don't have time to start getting coffee with acquaintances, even if it would be theoretically nice - I struggle to find time for close friends) and that that's why the follow-up invitation never comes. I know that's still confusing and indirect, but I think it's more likely that people are thinking 'that would be nice' but never getting round to it than that they're saying it while thinking 'obviously I would actually hate to have a coffee with you and have no intention of ever doing so under any circumstances'. There are people that I've been meaning to invite over for dinner for the last year and while clearly if it was really important to me I'd make it happen it is something I would genuinely like to do, if someone else organized it for me!

What do you mean that you weren't ready to show the baby at that point? What was the issue?
I'm sorry but I find that really stand- offish. You don't want anyone to see your baby but you do want help from them?
It sounds like you are deliberately creating barriers and then wonder why you aren't establishing good relationships.

Lot of Brit bashing on this thread. 🙁

I'm not sure I agree on class judgement comments. I think it's mostly because we're more private than other nationalities and having someone inside your home is an intimate thing for a lot of English people. I don't invite many people round that I most definitely like because I don't want to give the wrong impression and have them thinking we're closer than we are. If I have them round and they misinterpret its meaning I might hurt their feelings, so I avoid until I feel like we know where we stand with each other and what our relationship is. It's also awkward and possibly hurtful if we know people in common (say at work) and only one has been round, so I invite 'new' people like that round for a group cup of tea/coffee first.

I think a lot of people mean it when they say it but life is busy. We must catch up for a coffee I say/hear a lot but I'm just too busy. You talk about running out of milk and asking someone but your DH could just go out or order it. I'd be pissed off if someone called me to get them milk.

Yes. This.

I think when they offer they mean it, but then people won’t take them up on it because they don’t want to be a burden. That’s where the “fake” politeness comes in. I genuinely think that we could ask people for things, and when I do, they always help. But we rarely ask.
-another foreigner-