To think British culture is 'fake' nice

[Wonderingmyhead]

First time posting.

Just for background, I've been living in the UK for a long time so I'm a fully integrated resident.

Before anyone asks why am I living here. I've made it my home here and have a family here (DH & DD) but I struggle to understand the whole 'let me know if you need help' in EVERY situation of my life eg any time we'd be doing something be it decorating or, more recently, had a baby. My friends/DH's side of family would all say 'let me know if you need help/we're here to help if you need anything' BUT there's is real intention behind it - just words.

Another one where people say we should meet up/go for a coffee and when I suggest it takes weeks in advance to schedule it and ends up being cancelled in the end anyway.

We had tonnes of people offering help when we had a baby and after getting home from the hospital and realising we don't have any milk etc I told my DH 'well we've had all these help offers' and he told me it's best we order one of those whoosh Tesco deliveries as he'd feel awkward for someone to be dropping shopping off to us without seeing the baby in return (we weren't ready at that point). And any other time I'd attempt to call upon someone's promise it just doesn't go anywhere.

The culture I come from is less polite (which I dislike) and more direct, but if someone offers help they mean it and will turn up at your door to help.

So help out a gal.

So I'm wondering is it just me who thinks this way or AIBU/pessimistic?

Yanbu. There are loads of threads on here with people who have suffered something like a bereavement or an illness and find their 'friends' are nowhere to be found. And lots of people confirm that to be the case, and lots of others comment 'maybe death makes them uncomfortable'. But if you can't check in with a friend or drop them round something that they need in their worst times...then I dont think it's even a friendship personally.

And the people who always say 'yes we should do this' do my head in. One woman just ignored my invitation to pop in for a coffee and her child told mine she just didnt fancy it...which is actually much easier than saying yes and faffing about pretending to find a date.

Anyway I'm quite direct, I think I'm ND, and would only offer help if I could follow through...but find most people decline or say thanks and then dont take me up on it...maybe because they are worried it may be fake. However recently I've started saying 'yes' a bit more. We had a bereavement recently and a couple of people offered to take the kids for a while to get stuff sorted and it was really helpful. In the past I'd have said no. And I've made sure to return the favours since. We have no family near and it's nice to feel like you have some people to call on in an emergency.

So I'd say next time someone offers try saying 'oh yes that would be great, we are actually out of milk so would be amazing if you could drop some round' and see what happens...if it doesn't materialise you will be able to sort the fake from the real.

I agree totally! I think we like the concept of community but really don't wish to be involved in one another's lives.

That's not been my experience. I also was not born here but have made my life and family here- I have friends I could call on in the middle of the night in an emergency, we look after each others kids to give each other a break. I regularly drop baked good off to neighbours and they do similarly for us.

My street WhatsApp is brilliant; full of neighbours lending house stuff etc. It's so much more community minded than my home country.

Yes it's a cultural thing.

My Dutch friend used to comment when she lived here that people would say things like

"Oh you are welcome to come around anytime".

It was a nice platitude but it wasn't a literal invitation. Brits would generally understand this and that it was just polite conversation rather than a real invitation.

It took her a long time to understand the difference between British platitudes and what the British actually mean.

The reverse is true in Dutch culture. If they said the same they would expect you turn up on their doorstep the next day if the mood took you and you'd be welcome. They are also more direct and blunt.

I find it hard, because I'm naturally more like the Dutch cultural expectation in many respects and find the whole British platitudes thing frustrating.

It's trying to avoid saying things like
"I don't really fancy going for a cuppa actually" because we are so desperate to not be rude. But the effect can ultimately be the same as being rude if not properly understood.

There is this whole unwritten rulebook that the British understand which we don't even see and aren't aware of which people who haven't grown up here just don't understand.

We don't mean to be fake nice but we just do these things because we think it's being polite to act like this. It comes from a place of being nice.

I'm on holiday at the moment and reading this book (see pic)

I'm English and it has everything pretty spot on I'd say - worthwhile reading for anyone who wants to understand English culture and behaviours

I don't think OP is saying that all Brits are awful people, I don't think we are! But we are really bad at saying what we mean even to close friends and family! You just have to look at mumsnet threads to see that. How many upsetting situations would have never occurred if people had just said 'no thanks, I can't do that' or 'I need help, can you help me'. It is ridiculous yet we still do it, I know I do!

I think a very high value is placed on manners which can mean people say things they don't really mean, but in the example of offers to help, I do think most people mean it genuinely. People love to be needed and if you told them you needed the help they offered , most would be pleased.

Can I ask which culture you're from OP?

I totally agree. It does my head in. I've noticed in British culture, if you're invited to something you don't want to go to, you're expected to come up with a fake excuse. You're not allowed to just say "no thanks, I don't really fancy it" (I've learnt this from experience!)

People would even rather say "yes" and then cancel on the day, than to just tell you from the beginning that they don't want to go. Somehow this is the "nicer" thing to do, because they feel bad saying "no" when they're first asked.

I'm not foreign btw. My whole family and I are neurodiverse so I come from a very blunt and honest household. We prefer people to say what they mean as we're unable to read the subtext.

Apologies as I got ChatGPT to write this answer but I think it provides a useful summary...

The phrase "Let me know if there is anything I can do to help?" is a common social convention in English culture, and it is often used as a polite way of expressing sympathy or support for someone who is going through a difficult time. However, it is not always meant literally, and the English may not actually intend to follow through with helping, for a variety of reasons.
One reason is that the English value their privacy and may feel uncomfortable intruding on someone else's privacy by offering help that may be unwanted or intrusive. They may also worry about being seen as pushy or interfering.
Another reason is that the English may not want to make a commitment they cannot keep. They may be genuinely willing to help but unsure of their own abilities or availability, and rather than risk letting someone down, they prefer to offer a vague, non-committal offer.
Finally, the English may simply be following social conventions and don't expect the offer to be taken up, or they may not have the time, resources or capacity to offer practical help.
It's important to note that not all English people behave in the same way, and some may genuinely want to help and follow through with their offer. However, the phrase "Let me know if there is anything I can do to help?" is often used more as a social nicety than a genuine offer of assistance.

Pretty accurate

I think there are some nuances in the example you gave. Like your husband, I’d feel awkward accepting my family’s offer of help by asking them to drop something off, without letting them see the baby. It’s almost like saying, I’m happy to accept your help but you’re not worthy of my time (unless the baby was vulnerable in some way).

I think British culture is split by genuine offers of help and an awkwardness in accepting help yourself. My extended family were so helpful after the birth of my first baby (bringing food, doing laundry, giving us time to nap). But they had to offer a few times and drive home that they really didn’t mind before I felt comfortable accepting their offers.

Like anywhere, British culture has its quirks. I’d find living somewhere where bluntness was the norm difficult 🤷‍♀️.

I absolutely mean it when I offer help!! And I'm often giving it.

In my experience it's not fake at all. Perhaps change your circle of people?

YANBU. I'm a non-EU immigrant based in the Netherlands and was seconded to England for a year or so on a work assignment. My home culture is more polite than the Dutch culture but nothing like my experiences in England. It honestly got to the point where I stopped believing anyone, it felt like everyone I met was a liar. It was very demoralising.

I have found it difficult to understand what people really mean after encountering many of the platitudes as someone explained above. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that most of my friends here are immigrants. They are from many different countries but I know where I stand with them as they are more direct. Maybe after another decade here I will be able to decipher the code but I find it tiring.

Even more apologies that it posted without paragraphs

I do think it's a combination of all the things the ChatGPT answer includes.

It's not universal though - I only offer to help when I mean it and I'm English.

Do you always follow up with the people that offer to help?

It would definitely always be left to the person needing help to follow up and say if they needed something...

This is because privacy is a huge cultural thing here and people won't want to feel they're 'overstepping', 'getting involved where they're not really wanted' or 'causing a fuss'.

These are things all English people seek to avoid massively.

'Causing a fuss' is a big cultural, unspoken no-no.

So we vaguely offer to help and leave with the other person to say if they actually need help and if so, what we can do.

That being said...I realised some time back that this wasn't actually that helpful as it puts a lot onto the shoulders of the person going through the stress.

Instead I now try to do one thing that is practical but not 'causing too much fuss' or 'getting over involved without invitation'.

Generally speaking it tends to be something like making a big dinner that can be portioned and re-heated like a big lasagna or whatever (I do check for allergies and such beforehand). That way I can provide some practical help but in a way where I can just hand something over at the door and run to avoid the horror of being thought to be overinvested or causing fuss.

But they had to offer a few times and drive home that they really didn’t mind before I felt comfortable accepting their offers.

This a hundred times for me. So British.

That’s very true! I actually didn’t consider regional differences but that’s a great point. As a general rule I do find northerners to be much more direct. If help is offered, the offer is followed through, and although understated when it comes to praise if you’re being a twat you’ll be told you’re being a twat. It’s great!

You've been offered any help you needed, "just ask".. It means exactly what it says.

The reason you didn't get help is that you were too cold and inhibited to ask.

Must be some cultural lack of your owm.

They’ve offered help, and you haven’t taken them up on it. That’s all there is to it. The ball’s in your court now.
Personally, I regularly offer help to friends/family (lifts, help moving house, babysitting, picking up shopping). Sometimes the offer is taken up and sometimes it isn’t, but I always mean it.
Likewise, I will sometimes contact a friend who has offered help in the past and ask if the offer still stands (borrowing a car to get to the hospital, picking up shopping for me during covid) and generally they help me out if they can.

@yellowsmileyface
I've noticed in British culture, if you're invited to something you don't want to go to, you're expected to come up with a fake excuse. You're not allowed to just say "no thanks, I don't really fancy it"

That would be a very rude response. Rudeness is unwelcome.

. Nobody is expected to come up with a fake excuse; it's perfectly acceptable to politely reply " Unfortunately I have other plans that day." with no further details.

This also. Because 'causing a fuss' is an English cultural horror - most English people won't accept help or won't accept help very easily.

A lot of English people would rather go to quite ridiculous lengths to do things themselves rather than accept help. Not because of arrogance but because 'accepting help' = 'causing a fuss'.

It's also where the 'stiff upper lip' comes from. We don't really have a stiff upper lip we just can't culturally abide 'making a fuss' so we have to put on a stoical front.

This is why it's become a bit of a 'nicety' or social convention that English people say - it's not because they don't mean it or want to be 'fake' but because they are used to sort of understanding that people they say it to would most likely grind themselves into the ground trying to avoid the help offered!

...and yes, this is weird but all cultures have weird things about them including yours. Cultures are a bit like coming from a dysfunctional family, you think what happens in yours is normal and everyone else's is bizarre!

And many are actually genuinely nice and helpful because they like helping people.

I find that most people want to help but you have to ask. I am though with your dh that you can't ask someone to help you fetch milk for your baby then not let them even see the baby, that's plain rude

You're not wrong.

The same also goes for situations where you've done something wrong - British people often pretend it's fine but give you the cold shoulder really, without specifying what caused offence so you can make amends or learn from it.

Incidentally 'cold shoulder' is apparently from when you'd give unwelcome guests shit hospitality (cold shoulder of meat rather than something cooked fresh and hot) as a way of communicating that you want them to go. So even the phrase is passive aggressive!

I used to work with Chinese students and this came up all the time. I found it difficult to explain the differences to young people, in a new and alien environment, who pointed out very similar dissatisfactions. I think YANBU to notice that it's common here to often be too polite and to then see that sometimes as "fake niceness", it absolutley is a feature of our cultural politeness. Having said that, many people here genuinely are kind and helpful.