AIBU to be upset by these complaints against me?

[Govangirl]

Hi all. This has only happened within the past 5-6 hours, so still very fresh and a bit emotional about it.

I work with students and we hold a debating event every month or so. As it’s designed as a deliberative space, the icebreaker has to set the tone for the evening, and so for the past 6 events we’ve played a kind of “devils advocate” game wherein they pull clearly controversial opinions out of hats, and the “goal” is to debate this from both sides (equally if possible, though not always). This allows them to see things from different perspectives, and also encourages them to get into the deliberative, debating mindset.

Anyway (sorry for the waffle!) today we were joined by 2 new students, who had issues from the start. They said the lights were too bright (we dimmed them) and that the microphones were too loud (we lowered the volume and offered them ear protectors). I’m neurotypical myself so completely understand that these can negatively impact people. When the icebreaker was played, they called me over as the facilitator and explained that they would not be participating as they had fundamentally disagreed with the first prompt. They both trauma dumped excessively while not letting me get a word in edgeways, and then accused me of being racist, homophobic, and ableist because I had written out the prompts. I explained (or tried to) that it was MEANT to be controversial, and the aim was to get them to understand diff perspectives etc. but they were having none of it. They said they’d be making complaints about me, and I showed them how to access the feedback form for the event and gave my name when required.

They seemed to really enjoy the rest of the debate and got quite animated and engaged, which is why I suppose I guessed they wouldn’t make the complaint. They also both thanked me for hosting at the end.

I got home and got a message from my manager, letting me know that there have been 2 complaints filed on the feedback form. I have access to this and have read both, and they are utter b*llocks. Accusations of the above, of course, but also allegations that I mocked them for being abused, I forced them to actively discriminate against other students, they weren’t given an option not to participate, really vile, UNTRUE things.

I’ve only been at this job for 8 months, and it’s my first job out of uni. I love this job, and I’ve only ever received positive feedback and praise so this has really knocked my confidence. The allegations are plainly untrue, and I’m hoping that my manager will see through that, as they’re both known to be “difficult students”, though of course that doesn’t mean they’re inherently liars (but in this case their recanting of the event is inaccurate). My speciality at work is Equality, Diversity, and Inclusions, so I know that I wasn’t doing any of the things they’ve accused me of, I guess I’m just worried that maybe I’m being unreasonable for being so upset.

I will say, what amused me somewhat (for lack of better word) was that these were white British students who have accused me, a WOC, of racism and discriminatory behaviour.

Huge wall of text, so apologies for that. But AIBU for being concerned about these complaints? Do you think it will negatively affect my appraisals etc to have 2 “strikes” as it were against me for this specific alleged behaviour when I’m the designated expert in ED&I in the workplace?

TIA x

Yep, sounds to me like two twatty teens out to make trouble (even if not consciously. They may just have chips on their shoulders so deep that they don't see how twattish they actually are.) Good idea to do a paper dump yourself - write down everything you remember, and if you think you are going to have a rough night (which you don't deserve!) take a notepad to bed and scribble things down when they occur to you. Always remember that things look at their worst at 3am, if you are like me. This does sound like one that will blow over, though, and congratulations for having found a job which obviously inspires you and the kids.

Sounds like theyre trying to jump on a bandwoagon of being offended and then exaggerrating it

I think this is it. Maybe they're projecting in the way that a lot of younger people seem to do these days, whereby they can't understand the nuance of an individual being a complicated being, but feel they have to categorise them as a goodie or a baddie.

Even if the first prompt was something very benign, like dogs are better than cats, they may have felt strongly that cats are in fact better than dogs - and instead of getting the whole point of the exercise, dismissed you as being a 'wrong-thinking' person; then who knows what other negative attributes they might have assumed 'must' also apply to somebody who (in their ignorant misunderstanding) believes anything that they disagree with.

Obviously, I have no way of knowing about these two young people personally, but some white people (I am white, fwiw) completely misunderstand what racism is: they think that, if somebody who happens to be of a different race from them disagrees with them on anything, that makes them 'racist'. In effect, it's their internalised racism that makes them accuse others of racism. To be fair, this does sometimes happen the other way around too.

It's always risky when hosting a debate, as a surprising amount of people just don't 'get' what the host's role is, and assume that it's all personal to them. They probably used to watch WWTBAM and believe that Chris Tarrant paid the winnings out of his own personal money!

There was a MN thread recently about a discussion on Jeremy Vine's show on Radio 2, asking 'Should older people be expected to downsize to free up family homes for younger people?' - and a lot of people were angrily criticising Jeremy, mostly saying things like "It's all very well for him in his expensive house, I bet he wouldn't think of downsizing himself, so how dare he expect me to". It was just a general topical discussion point, reacting to the news, and he was just asking people to call in with their many and varied opinions on it!

You being Neuro diverse makes much more sense of that statement!!! In which case yes it puts that statement in a very different category

Yy given the list of topics it does sound like a storm in a teacup. I think for my own satisfaction I'd want a bit more information from the person leading the table. I'm not sure I'd think anymore about it though...

you cant please all the people all the time.

(The typically Neuro diverse requests probably clue you into some SN)

Yeah right, they were accusing the OP, who is non-white, of racism. Reminds me of some of the posts on here where some dude rocks up and starts mansplaining feminism to women. Although sound like these students were children, so obviously cut them a bit more slack.

If you deal with the public a minority won’t like / get you however great you genuinely are. You need to accept it as a fact of life.

What bit??

You dont find the phrase trauma dumping offensive? Fair enough that's your opinion. But personally I'd have gone for became distressed as a more professional choice over trauma dumping.

Tbf the original posts made the "controversial" statements sound an awful lot worse than they were. A fact I acknowledged in a later post.

White privelege. That's what they were exercising. Their utmost right to be right. Their utmost right to find fault. Honestly they sound like they're trying to be controversial/edgy but whilst it's a game to them, it's damaging for others, so they need to be pulled up.

I feel sorry for them.

Ref you're issue OP, you need to see all the feedback, your manager will have seen all feedback which I suspect is excellent except for the two. It may be useful to identify who might have heard the initial conversation and them thanking you. Hoping you find those people.

Good luck x

If you deal with the public a minority won’t like / get you however great you genuinely are. You need to accept it as a fact of life.

But it's always a valid concern when they take it to the point of officially complaining about you, rather than just grumbling to themselves as most people would if they didn't particularly love something.

As children, they have little to lose; but an adult professional could lose a lot if mud is thrown and allowed to stick.

You sound absolutely brilliant. You have put forward some very inoffensive things to discuss and those two sound like they could create a fight in an empty room. If you are still awake now, write it all out as though it was a play making a note of exactly what you and they said. Then you will know that you have a much clearer memory of what happened and you can go to sleep. I'm sure it'll be dealt with properly tomorrow.

The pair of them sound like professional trouble makers, the sort that belong to the perpetually offended brigade. They are probably so boring that they continually look for things to complain about in the mistaken belief that it makes them look interesting and relevant. It doesn't, they just look like the sad, inconsequential twats they really are.

The accusations of racism in the topics chosen is completely barmy, but also rather sinister when you consider the consequences that could have for the Op's professional future.

I hope you mount a robust rebuttal of their accusations Op, their ridiculous complaints should not be allowed to go unchallenged. I think they should be banned from attending any more debates as they sound far too thick to understand the concept.

Could Dogs are better than cats be a bit racist. In Islam dogs are considered impure and I don't think Islam allows dogs in a house

You haven't done anything wrong. Some people are dickheads. Everyone who has ever worked has encountered dickheads at some point. It's upsetting but try not to let it knock your confidence, sounds like you're doing a great job.

Islam is a religion, so race doesn't come into it.

But… Romaine or Iceberg???

I agree that you should write down your recollection while it's fresh. Make sure it also has the list of questions in it in case it's reviewed by anyone who doesn't already know them. I think seeing just how benign they are really changes how most people will see the situation compared to what they might imagine from the OP.

I agree with @Iamnotthe1 ’s post! The listed prompts sound extremely mild and I really can’t understand how a student could interpret them as racist or ableist, which leads me to believe that they are intentionally or unintentionally shit-stirring. The fact that they are accusing a person of colour of racism on the back of such benign prompts to me suggests it is potentially the former. I agree with another poster who says we were debating much more controversial topics at much younger ages in our day (1990s teen here!).

I agree you sound kind and your heart is in the right place (but I also agree you need to think carefully on how you word your response to this when you’re feeling a bit calmer so as not to sound overly defensive, you’ve done absolutely nothing wrong here and others are already aware of these student’s form so don’t panic).

I would like to add that I really appreciate you doing this sort of exercise with students and think it would be a real shame for troublemakers to cause you to change this programme. I see a lot of positives in my child’s generation but the one thing I absolutely hate about their generation is this apparent complete inability to see someone else’s point of view or appreciate any sort of nuance in people’s views, and that if someone is found “guilty” of holding the wrong views they are completely “cancelled” in every aspect of life as just an utterly evil human being with zero redeeming qualities. I feel this sort of thing is sorely needed but if anything I think they need to debate more controversial topics than they’re being given here especially at sixth form level (maybe with some trigger warnings given for those who might find it a particularly upsetting topic to discuss).

Sure they can have opinions….

As you seem to be an expert could you explain which of the topics the OP has mentioned would justify white students calling a teacher of colour racist?

thanks

What on earth does pet selection have to do with racism 🤨
You’re being ridiculous. And also overlooking that as a debate topic, there will also be students arguing that cars are better than dogs

You are getting some really weird responses on here.

If I have understood correctly, you are an autistic POC who runs a debating club for which you receive regular positive feedback.

You have posted the list of debating topics and they are not contentious or offensive in any way.

Two new students attended, who you suspect may be ND. Staff warned you that they could be intentionally disruptive. They requested adjustments that you readily provided. They were given the option of sitting out and observing. They appeared to enjoy the session and left looking happy.

Of course it is upsetting that they then submitted serious formal complaints that contained allegations that were both hurtful and untrue. It is infuriating to have defend yourself against lies. It knocks your confidence because they set out to cause trouble for you, and that makes it personal.

OP, it sounds as if other staff and students present will be able to refute their claims. It is a nonsense waste of your time and will spur the enthusiasm of a person who was previously passionate about their job. Any teacher can tell you how soul destroying it is to waste hours of time defending against utter vexatious bullshit, whilst remaining professional. By taking it seriously, it legitimises and empowers them. I hope it is resolved quickly for you.

Yes, this is an important lesson. You're newish in the workforce and I love my job and I’m very passionate about my specialism, and I’ve only ever received praise and positive feedback.

So this is the first time you've faced any criticism at work? It certainly won't be the last! It's important to listen to complaints to hear another perspective and reflect on where you can improve in future, but please don't take it as a personal insult or reflection of your overall performance. It happens to the best of us.

My thoughts exactly.

OP, don't apologize here or to those students. You did nothing wrong.

Regarding the dogs better than cats question, I just thought that perhaps Muslims in the class might feel a bit awkward say arguing which one was better whichever side they were on as Islam considers dogs to be impure and as far as I am aware most Muslims would consider it dirty to have them in the house. This could lead to awkward discussion and dog lovers getting offended and Muslim students feeling put on the spot having to defend their religion. I wouldn't chose it as a debating topic in a class where some students are Muslims.

I can understand why you feel upset at their behaviour.

I think it is likely one of two things. Either they are general troublemakers or just so wound up on their own specialness that no one else could possibly understand and upset everything didn't revolve around them.

I interviewed a young woman recently for a job in a very male dominated career (to the extent it is widely commented on by people seeing you do the job). I think she was irked to find out she wasn't going to be the first woman to storm in, even more so when she found out our team has several women. She then lectured us about neurodivergence. I explained that I have ADHD and several others have different neurodiversities and that we were all supportive of each other. This was clearly wrong too. We got a very nasty complaint from her and I was glad it was a panel of 3 after what she said. When a big part of what you do is encouraging wider participation and to build others up it really hurts even when you know it is baseless.

These entitled shits do not care whose lives they affect in their search for world domination and power. This is why employers shy away from people who identify as “other” or “rather not say” in the gender boxes. They’re trouble-makers and they “know their rights” so no matter how vile the atmosphere in the workplace is, you can’t get rid. This is not my own opinion, it is the opinion of so many employers freely out there on social media. I have just seen how badly my kids have been affected by people just like you have described (despite identifying similarly) they bullied and humiliated my kids but were excused because of their own “issues.”

I can see what your two students turn into op by some of the replies on here, so weird!

You did nothing wrong and no need to defend yourself here. I understand why you're bringing up race and it is relevant to the conversation.

If a man accused a woman (out of nowhere) of misogyny no one would think anything of bringing up his sex. So I don't know why people have a problem with you bringing up race!