AIBU to be upset by these complaints against me?

[Govangirl]

Hi all. This has only happened within the past 5-6 hours, so still very fresh and a bit emotional about it.

I work with students and we hold a debating event every month or so. As it’s designed as a deliberative space, the icebreaker has to set the tone for the evening, and so for the past 6 events we’ve played a kind of “devils advocate” game wherein they pull clearly controversial opinions out of hats, and the “goal” is to debate this from both sides (equally if possible, though not always). This allows them to see things from different perspectives, and also encourages them to get into the deliberative, debating mindset.

Anyway (sorry for the waffle!) today we were joined by 2 new students, who had issues from the start. They said the lights were too bright (we dimmed them) and that the microphones were too loud (we lowered the volume and offered them ear protectors). I’m neurotypical myself so completely understand that these can negatively impact people. When the icebreaker was played, they called me over as the facilitator and explained that they would not be participating as they had fundamentally disagreed with the first prompt. They both trauma dumped excessively while not letting me get a word in edgeways, and then accused me of being racist, homophobic, and ableist because I had written out the prompts. I explained (or tried to) that it was MEANT to be controversial, and the aim was to get them to understand diff perspectives etc. but they were having none of it. They said they’d be making complaints about me, and I showed them how to access the feedback form for the event and gave my name when required.

They seemed to really enjoy the rest of the debate and got quite animated and engaged, which is why I suppose I guessed they wouldn’t make the complaint. They also both thanked me for hosting at the end.

I got home and got a message from my manager, letting me know that there have been 2 complaints filed on the feedback form. I have access to this and have read both, and they are utter b*llocks. Accusations of the above, of course, but also allegations that I mocked them for being abused, I forced them to actively discriminate against other students, they weren’t given an option not to participate, really vile, UNTRUE things.

I’ve only been at this job for 8 months, and it’s my first job out of uni. I love this job, and I’ve only ever received positive feedback and praise so this has really knocked my confidence. The allegations are plainly untrue, and I’m hoping that my manager will see through that, as they’re both known to be “difficult students”, though of course that doesn’t mean they’re inherently liars (but in this case their recanting of the event is inaccurate). My speciality at work is Equality, Diversity, and Inclusions, so I know that I wasn’t doing any of the things they’ve accused me of, I guess I’m just worried that maybe I’m being unreasonable for being so upset.

I will say, what amused me somewhat (for lack of better word) was that these were white British students who have accused me, a WOC, of racism and discriminatory behaviour.

Huge wall of text, so apologies for that. But AIBU for being concerned about these complaints? Do you think it will negatively affect my appraisals etc to have 2 “strikes” as it were against me for this specific alleged behaviour when I’m the designated expert in ED&I in the workplace?

TIA x

Absolutely harmless. I’m beginning to wonder if these students are targeting you.

Unbelievable. I hope everything is dropped, and nothing goes in your record.

id keep an eye out for those two. It just doesn’t add up.

Yes definitely @LaMaG my DF is Irish and moved to London in the 60s. The racism was really bad and it was difficult to find lodging. Blatant signs on the doors of houses where rooms were for rent - no Irish, no blacks, no dogs etc. More recent example: Polish people are white and have faced racism in the UK

Irish people aren’t a different race though. There’s a lot of overlap. The anti-Irish sentiment was due to their poverty, alcoholism, Catholic religion, relative backwardness culturally and the IRA. Not to their colour or race. If they spoke in an English accent they were far less likely to be discriminated against. I’m from an Irish background too, before you become outraged.

And if you think it’s anything as bad as what black people faced and continue to face you’re being disingenuous.

I don’t think and never have thought or said it’s anything as bad as what black people faced and continue to face. Quite the opposite.

It was a reply to a post by@LaMaG that was very specifically about Irish people

Agree to an extent although I guess it’s perception of race ie skin colour.

I was gonna say is this more xenophobia but I think the Irish discrimination does have both a racial and a cultural element to it. The difference is once the accent’s gone race among people of broadly the same ‘colour’ is difficult to determine.

I find your comments bizarre. I'm not married to a white person, but my choice of who to marry has nothing to do with wanting to 'diversify' my family! I didn't even think about it at the time. Now I have friends apologising to me that their families are so 'white and boring'. Why wouldn't you have white families in the UK?!

I guess it comes down to how you define race. Many irish especially back 50 years ago would be adamant that they are of a different race, not just culture. And what happened at the time was racism and was intended to be so. I get that those who adopted a different accent "got away with it" but isn't that like saying black people should lighten their skin to avoid experiencing racism.

The legal definition of racism refers to treating someone unfavourably because of their colour, race, or ethnic or national origins.
So racism is not just about race @Famzonhol.

Yes and accent and religion weren’t the only markers back then before people moved around as much as now. Ireland had distinctive and fewer surnames a few decades ago

Recognisably Irish, I mean, and far fewer common surnames than England had at the time

Surely you could offer to meet with the students and just let them ventilate their concerns? Take hold of the situation.

It's really difficult to see how "pineapple belongs on pizza" turned into a race and/or trauma issue. It just feels like something got lost in translation there, or a misunderstanding mushroomed.

Sorry if I missed it, but what set them off was the fist prompt---youve given various examples of prompts but what was the actual first prompt that they fundamentally objected to?

You mentioned that participation was optional (comfy chairs, etc.) but it sounds like you did challenge their reluctance and cajole them into participating. You might have gone too far with the explaining? The activity is what is. If its not for them, it's not for them.

Play it off as non-defensively as possible. Don't play victim: they're kids. Meet with them, let them vent, nod and say, "Noted, thanks for bringing that up" and then don't change a thing.

I’ve been wondering if they’re fed up with all the woke pandering and they’re calling your bluff.

Whether you’re adamant about your race or not doesn’t change your race.

I don’t understand your comment about lightening skin. Where did I say black people should lighten their skin? They can’t anyway, obviously, even if they wanted to. Hence my actual comment, which was that racism affects people who are of a different race, eg people of colour. Not people who are not of a different race, just have a different accent and culture.

Ok, apologies, I just looked up definition of race and the definition is looser than I thought. Still though, white people are less likely to experience racism from white people than black people are. Because if they really want to they can shift away from their original culture and blend with the dominant white culture. Lots of Eastern European people who emigrated to the US changed their surnames for example. Lots of people change their accents. Others choose to maintain their own culture. But the point is that white people have the option to blend in if they choose to reduce the amount of racism or xenophobia they experience. Black people find this much more difficult. So I dislike when people minimise this difficulty by saying it’s just as bad for them.

They sound like absolute dickheads tbh, regardless of their personal 'traumas'. I know the type. I actually think that schools and universities need to be defending their staff from these kinds of students because there are an increasing number of them and they are having a real chilling effect on education. They are narcissists masquerading as victims and yes, narcissism often originates from trauma. Your 'controversial' statements had zero controversy. I don't know how these types go on to survive in the world to be quite honest with you.

Can't believe the replies on this thread trying to pick holes in what the OP said. No wonder kids have zero resilience nowadays with parents like those on this thread trying to find offence in the most innocent of remarks. OP - I completely sympathise having worked at a university as well. There was absolutely nothing wrong with any of the topics you chose.

I dislike when people minimise this difficulty by saying it’s just as bad for them.

Comparisons are always tricky though. My own observation is that black people suffer the worst racism. I work in a very multicultural company and absolutely they seem to attract the most rudeness. Covert racism though like the OP
is experiencing here. Interestingly the ones who are rude in this way to them are also sometimes poc, it isn’t just white people who are racist, it is much more complex than that.

But I don’t think this invalidates racism that others experience though. It isn’t just about the worst scenario.

I also think all the offended ness stops sensible conversation - the terribly white balcony. What an utterly daft thing to say. But I’m not offended by it, would question how delicate you would need to be to be offended and all the furore over it is ridiculous. Covert racism then leads to a ridiculous number of ‘complaints’.

Sorry OP missed your update. I'm glad your colleagues had your back.

Goodness OP, those topics really couldn't be less controversial! I was thinking it was going to be something like 'Being gay is a lifestyle choice' or something crazy like that - not 'should pineapple be on pizza' type things!

It sounds to me like these two students wanted to make this all about them while putting an end to people debating and perhaps even bringing you down for leading it or maybe even for being a WOC. There does seem to be a move towards debate being considered somehow dangerous or bad by some young people and I think that's a really dangerous move. I'm so glad your colleagues had your back, although people do seem keen to pick your posts here apart where ever they can. Not unusual on this site though!

You sound extremely reasonable and it's great for the students to have an opportunity like this. I think what you need to do here is be strong, clear and very confident that you have done nothing wrong, that these students were looking for trouble. You need to have clear boundaries about what is and isn't acceptable behaviour in the room and think about and know exactly how to handle this should it happen again. Get some advice from your manager if you are concerned or unsure so that you can handle it confidently. You sound like an asset, believe in yourself!

A common theme in this thread is the certainty that people hold about the motivations of others. Unless people disclose what is driving their behaviour (which they can be unaware of themselves) we are left having to make inferences. Our inferences could be correct, or incorrect - we don't know. I am concerned by the certainty that many people have about what drives the behaviours of others. It may be likely that the girls' behaviour is underpinned by racism, it may also be some other type of power play. Either way, their behaviour is unacceptable and needs addressing.

I also think there is power play going on with the OPs perception of what is 'controversial'. For me, this steps into the worrying area of thinking that hearing differing views is dangerous/damaging to certain groups who are too fragile to cope/ aren't resilient to differing view points.

I think greater awareness about power and oppression and critical theory has been great for opening our eyes to what has happened in history and what is played out today. I had lots of blind spots with regard to unconscious assumptions I held. Interestingly, due to my upbringing, I tend not to have biased thoughts linked to race or disability but I do due to class. I have grown up around powerful and influential POC and disabled people, but none of whom had working class accents. I am not proud to admit that I have to pay conscious attention to address biased judgements of people with working class accents. Furthermore, for me, I am not convinced that intersectionality comes in to play here either. I don't think the characteristic of being black, or a wheelchair user, if accompanied with an spoken accent that I unconsciously (and wrongly) associate with 'a good level of academic achievement', or a high degree of proficiency in British Sign Language, would alter my unconscious bias. However, there are some that would demand I 'check my privilege' - I am white and don't have a disability - and accept that I will unconsciously discriminate against POC and those with disabilities. I disagree, but this will then be argued to be evidence of my ignorance. They can't know my motivations and I may be unconscious (or defended/ in denial) of my biases. However, I still argue that the inferences of others about the motivations of a person should not be considered fact.

Also just read your update. So pleased your colleagues supported you. But those kids! At best they are trying to wind you up. At worst? I wouldn't want to speculate. Definitely avoid being alone with them. Good luck OP

Different profession, but as a nurse I had a complaint against me 30 years into my service.
I had acted as chaperone in a gynae clinic, and the consultant told me that the patient complained that I 'looked down my nose' at her and had a superior attitude.
-"Oh sorry about that. Has anyone else ever complained about me?"
-" No, everyone says you're friendly, kind and supportive"
-" So ....do you think that possibly she is the one with the attitude?"
Defend yourself! Some people are just complete a***s and are only happy when they're being miserable.

Self entitled little knobheads. No experience of life, that is their problem!