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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be upset by these complaints against me?

328 replies

Govangirl · 04/05/2023 22:22

Hi all. This has only happened within the past 5-6 hours, so still very fresh and a bit emotional about it.

I work with students and we hold a debating event every month or so. As it’s designed as a deliberative space, the icebreaker has to set the tone for the evening, and so for the past 6 events we’ve played a kind of “devils advocate” game wherein they pull clearly controversial opinions out of hats, and the “goal” is to debate this from both sides (equally if possible, though not always). This allows them to see things from different perspectives, and also encourages them to get into the deliberative, debating mindset.

Anyway (sorry for the waffle!) today we were joined by 2 new students, who had issues from the start. They said the lights were too bright (we dimmed them) and that the microphones were too loud (we lowered the volume and offered them ear protectors). I’m neurotypical myself so completely understand that these can negatively impact people. When the icebreaker was played, they called me over as the facilitator and explained that they would not be participating as they had fundamentally disagreed with the first prompt. They both trauma dumped excessively while not letting me get a word in edgeways, and then accused me of being racist, homophobic, and ableist because I had written out the prompts. I explained (or tried to) that it was MEANT to be controversial, and the aim was to get them to understand diff perspectives etc. but they were having none of it. They said they’d be making complaints about me, and I showed them how to access the feedback form for the event and gave my name when required.

They seemed to really enjoy the rest of the debate and got quite animated and engaged, which is why I suppose I guessed they wouldn’t make the complaint. They also both thanked me for hosting at the end.

I got home and got a message from my manager, letting me know that there have been 2 complaints filed on the feedback form. I have access to this and have read both, and they are utter b*llocks. Accusations of the above, of course, but also allegations that I mocked them for being abused, I forced them to actively discriminate against other students, they weren’t given an option not to participate, really vile, UNTRUE things.

I’ve only been at this job for 8 months, and it’s my first job out of uni. I love this job, and I’ve only ever received positive feedback and praise so this has really knocked my confidence. The allegations are plainly untrue, and I’m hoping that my manager will see through that, as they’re both known to be “difficult students”, though of course that doesn’t mean they’re inherently liars (but in this case their recanting of the event is inaccurate). My speciality at work is Equality, Diversity, and Inclusions, so I know that I wasn’t doing any of the things they’ve accused me of, I guess I’m just worried that maybe I’m being unreasonable for being so upset.

I will say, what amused me somewhat (for lack of better word) was that these were white British students who have accused me, a WOC, of racism and discriminatory behaviour.

Huge wall of text, so apologies for that. But AIBU for being concerned about these complaints? Do you think it will negatively affect my appraisals etc to have 2 “strikes” as it were against me for this specific alleged behaviour when I’m the designated expert in ED&I in the workplace?

TIA x

OP posts:
Hmm1234 · 06/05/2023 21:22

You are a teacher and making assumptions/ stereotyping students as ‘behaving animated’
and ‘problem students’ so have you been unprofessionally discussing them in the staff room!? I was with you until you described yourself as a POC. awful attitude and your exercise sounds poorly planned hence, the backlash.
mixed background sociology student perspective btw.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 06/05/2023 22:15

Hmm1234 · 06/05/2023 21:22

You are a teacher and making assumptions/ stereotyping students as ‘behaving animated’
and ‘problem students’ so have you been unprofessionally discussing them in the staff room!? I was with you until you described yourself as a POC. awful attitude and your exercise sounds poorly planned hence, the backlash.
mixed background sociology student perspective btw.

Yeah...no.

Hobbi · 06/05/2023 22:16

Hmm1234 · 06/05/2023 21:22

You are a teacher and making assumptions/ stereotyping students as ‘behaving animated’
and ‘problem students’ so have you been unprofessionally discussing them in the staff room!? I was with you until you described yourself as a POC. awful attitude and your exercise sounds poorly planned hence, the backlash.
mixed background sociology student perspective btw.

Utter. Utter. Gibberish.

gillefc82 · 06/05/2023 22:17

Govangirl · 04/05/2023 23:02

Prompts:

Dogs are better than cats.

Pineapple does not belong on pizza.

Social media can be harmful sometimes.

The voting age in the UK should be 16.

Junk food should be banned at school.

The church and state should always be separate. (Only for the 6th formers, the students in question categorically did not receive this prompt. We are a secular school but welcoming of all faith and the 6th formers had just done on essay on this in citizenship so was relevant etc)

Sometimes it’s ok to cheat on homework.

Everyone should be able just to bring their pets to school.

The school week should be 4 days.

School uniform should not be mandatory.

University should be free for everyone.

Animals should not be kept in zoos.

Apple is better than Microsoft.

Videogaming should be classed as a sport.

The book is always better than the film.

Being able to fly would be better than being able to turn invisible.

Fiction is better than non-fiction.

These are all the prompts that were included in the activity, though again the church v state one was only for 6th formers, which these students were not.

I don’t consider any of those topics to be particularly inflammatory. I’m now 41, but back many years ago in Y5 Primary, I was in the after school debate club. I remember us tackling far more sensitive topics (for example, I remember having to debate “Should smoking be banned” and having to argue the against position!) and as a bunch of 10 year olds, we all managed to have a sensible, respectful and (sometimes!) informed discussion without resorting to accusations of prejudice, bullying etc.

Having seen your update post, I really hope you report this latest encounter and the school hierarchy do not allow these two teens to get away with their behaviour. It is nasty, disrespectful bullying and seems to be an attempt to undermine you and destroy the confidence of a newly qualified teacher.

BTW, I’d have loved a class like yours when I was at HS. I’ve always loved a good healthy debate and it sounds like your class is great for stimulating critical thinking and considered discussion. Being mature enough to reflect on your own opinion, listen to and consider the other side and be open to having your mind changed if the counter argument is a compelling one is a dying ability in society. nowadays, which is a real shame. Good on you @Govangirl for guiding some of the younger generation to have the tools to think independently.

Goodwomannotstandingby · 06/05/2023 22:25

Honestly I’d put a complaint in against those 2 for racism as that is their issue. And then I’d suggest they never come to your session again and may wish to rethink their studies if they do not wish to participate as non participation will result in a strike same as if they hadn’t turned up as clearly they had to go to your session for a reason.

GenderCriticalTrumpets · 06/05/2023 22:27

They sound like horrible little shits and I hope they get their comeuppance, @Govangirl !

Goodwomannotstandingby · 06/05/2023 22:41

From your post I also deduce you work at a private school. Pretty sure the students suffer from white male privilege and boarding school syndrome (over confidence with nothing to back it up) nothing else. Bet the parents are affluent and possibly in some sort of power position and they think they are next in line to do as they please.

Mookie81 · 06/05/2023 22:43

Kitcaterpillar · 04/05/2023 23:35

Are the two students on here replying to the post?!

Some really weird responses.

The OP has outed herself as non-white on here, so it's inevitable.

WishingMyLifeAway · 06/05/2023 23:39

DahliaBlue · 05/05/2023 01:18

Could Dogs are better than cats be a bit racist. In Islam dogs are considered impure and I don't think Islam allows dogs in a house

Seriously!?! This is where we are at now? Jesus. Stop the world I want to get off.

DojaPhat · 06/05/2023 23:52

I have tried to RTWFT but my view is the premise of these debates is actually a perfect recipe for disaster. I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened sooner. In any case if you're a POC and do this kind of thing for a living then you must be made of very tough stuff, a lot of white people like to debate these things because it has absolutely no material impact on their lives unlike yours... but if it's what you like...

REteacher101 · 07/05/2023 01:05

DojaPhat · 06/05/2023 23:52

I have tried to RTWFT but my view is the premise of these debates is actually a perfect recipe for disaster. I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened sooner. In any case if you're a POC and do this kind of thing for a living then you must be made of very tough stuff, a lot of white people like to debate these things because it has absolutely no material impact on their lives unlike yours... but if it's what you like...

The premise of these debates...? Voting age? Choice of pets?
I think these are really tame actually. Now if you have them questions on something like abortion or gender identity I'd expect the debate to get more heated.. The comment made to you about hating white people is something I'd want their parents to know about.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 07/05/2023 01:07

More than half of those topics are covered in primary, starting as young as y2. No one melted yet.

Twinbabygirlsmay22 · 07/05/2023 01:22

Sorry, I meant to choose “you are not being unreasonable”!
i wanted you to know that one of the votes was incorrect, mine.

I absolutely understand your perspective and empathise entirely.

REteacher101 · 07/05/2023 01:22

You can change your vote, just click on it again

Notsupermumof7 · 07/05/2023 01:59

Govangirl · 04/05/2023 22:22

Hi all. This has only happened within the past 5-6 hours, so still very fresh and a bit emotional about it.

I work with students and we hold a debating event every month or so. As it’s designed as a deliberative space, the icebreaker has to set the tone for the evening, and so for the past 6 events we’ve played a kind of “devils advocate” game wherein they pull clearly controversial opinions out of hats, and the “goal” is to debate this from both sides (equally if possible, though not always). This allows them to see things from different perspectives, and also encourages them to get into the deliberative, debating mindset.

Anyway (sorry for the waffle!) today we were joined by 2 new students, who had issues from the start. They said the lights were too bright (we dimmed them) and that the microphones were too loud (we lowered the volume and offered them ear protectors). I’m neurotypical myself so completely understand that these can negatively impact people. When the icebreaker was played, they called me over as the facilitator and explained that they would not be participating as they had fundamentally disagreed with the first prompt. They both trauma dumped excessively while not letting me get a word in edgeways, and then accused me of being racist, homophobic, and ableist because I had written out the prompts. I explained (or tried to) that it was MEANT to be controversial, and the aim was to get them to understand diff perspectives etc. but they were having none of it. They said they’d be making complaints about me, and I showed them how to access the feedback form for the event and gave my name when required.

They seemed to really enjoy the rest of the debate and got quite animated and engaged, which is why I suppose I guessed they wouldn’t make the complaint. They also both thanked me for hosting at the end.

I got home and got a message from my manager, letting me know that there have been 2 complaints filed on the feedback form. I have access to this and have read both, and they are utter b*llocks. Accusations of the above, of course, but also allegations that I mocked them for being abused, I forced them to actively discriminate against other students, they weren’t given an option not to participate, really vile, UNTRUE things.

I’ve only been at this job for 8 months, and it’s my first job out of uni. I love this job, and I’ve only ever received positive feedback and praise so this has really knocked my confidence. The allegations are plainly untrue, and I’m hoping that my manager will see through that, as they’re both known to be “difficult students”, though of course that doesn’t mean they’re inherently liars (but in this case their recanting of the event is inaccurate). My speciality at work is Equality, Diversity, and Inclusions, so I know that I wasn’t doing any of the things they’ve accused me of, I guess I’m just worried that maybe I’m being unreasonable for being so upset.

I will say, what amused me somewhat (for lack of better word) was that these were white British students who have accused me, a WOC, of racism and discriminatory behaviour.

Huge wall of text, so apologies for that. But AIBU for being concerned about these complaints? Do you think it will negatively affect my appraisals etc to have 2 “strikes” as it were against me for this specific alleged behaviour when I’m the designated expert in ED&I in the workplace?

TIA x

Definitely be prepared to defend yourself. Take the complaints seriously just incase your management does.
I am picking up on some internal bias though with your statement that the white British pupils accused you of racism because your a woc. Everyone no matter race of skin colour has the potential to be discriminatory and/or racist. It kind of reads like you find the idea absurd and it just isn't possible because you can't be racist to a white person definitely reframe that before any meetings and also as ED&I expert you should know better

Notsupermumof7 · 07/05/2023 02:07

Just read the update - sounds like the pupils are deliberately targeting you. Raise this with management and keep a note of incidences, if my kids were doing that if be livid!

dropthevipers · 07/05/2023 03:15

Hmm1234 · 06/05/2023 21:22

You are a teacher and making assumptions/ stereotyping students as ‘behaving animated’
and ‘problem students’ so have you been unprofessionally discussing them in the staff room!? I was with you until you described yourself as a POC. awful attitude and your exercise sounds poorly planned hence, the backlash.
mixed background sociology student perspective btw.

is that available in an English translation?

MrsTerryPratchett · 07/05/2023 05:48

dropthevipers · 07/05/2023 03:15

is that available in an English translation?

I can do it:

I'm a student and my grammar and punctuation is shit which is fine because POSTMODERISM. I want to judge a Black woman because it makes me feel things. I'm hard work.

I'm an expert in translation and interpretation for Twatois.

Twinbabygirlsmay22 · 07/05/2023 07:00

Lol so that’s embarrassing. Thank you 😃

Thriftnugget · 07/05/2023 08:00

ED&I is a really challenging area of work and my observations over years are that ED&I leads really need a combination of the ability to reflect with a strong confidence in their own understanding of the subject. I’m not saying that the OP lacks either, however by her own admission she is relatively early in the role. And working with teenagers also means a strong sense of self confidence is very helpful at least. Looking ahead I wonder @Govangirl if it might be supportive to have a mentor from the same area of work.

I hope this event eventually serves to reinforce your confidence in your practice, I think today’s teenagers can really benefit from your work.

Fraaahnces · 07/05/2023 08:04

Kids like this make me so angry! I am so pleased you have others backing you up! I just wish there was a way you could get rid of the monsters!

Fairislefandango · 07/05/2023 08:09

Some really bizarre responses on here Confused. You have done nothing wrong whatsoever, OP. These students are clearly just out to cause trouble for some reason. You made adjustments for them, and your debate topics contain nothing remotely offensive. They can't possibly have any justification for this nonsense!

As for this:
Could Dogs are better than cats be a bit racist. In Islam dogs are considered impure and I don't think Islam allows dogs in a house

Words fail me...

Growingouttogether · 07/05/2023 08:12

I can’t get over the part where school kids now get to dictate lighting and sound levels in a
classroom. Is this really the norm? Those kids sound like entitled little shits who have never been told to just get on with it.

Theydontknowthatweknowthattheyknow · 07/05/2023 08:31

Hmm1234 · 06/05/2023 21:22

You are a teacher and making assumptions/ stereotyping students as ‘behaving animated’
and ‘problem students’ so have you been unprofessionally discussing them in the staff room!? I was with you until you described yourself as a POC. awful attitude and your exercise sounds poorly planned hence, the backlash.
mixed background sociology student perspective btw.

You're talking absolute bollocks. Nothing about the OP's activity sounds in the least bit poorly planned or inflammatory. To me it sounds like 2 bitchy little girls have closet racist parents who's shitty, small-minded attitude has rubbed off on them and now they're finding any which way to harrass her. I really hope the school don't stand for it for one second

Doggate1 · 07/05/2023 08:32

They are just complaints and an investigation will be conducted . If they don’t actively do one, I would ask for one.

you should remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion and their own view.
sometimes it is good for people to raise these criticisms to help us self reflect.
it seems you have taken a very upper stance approach of - I know best so they just be wrong.
I would sack you - you should be inclusive and work with the people you have. All personalities etc. adjust your material etc.

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