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Original poster

Was I accidentally homophobic?

162 replies

jamie98765 · 04/05/2023 08:20

Firstly, apologies in advance if I upset anyone with this, that is not my intention. But if I am wrong, I need to educate myself and the only way to do so is to ask questions, I hope this is a safe space to do so.

Am I homophobic by describing someone as camp???

One of my straight male colleagues refers to himself as camp. Recently in a conversation, I described him in the same way, one of my managers overheard and said that this was a homophobic term and unacceptable. I explained that I believe camp to mean flamboyant or effeminate I also said that not all gay men are camp And not all camp men are gay.
However, my manager is insistent that this term is homophobic and has decided to take it further.

I have spoken to several gay friends who do not believe it to be homophobic, but I wondered what the general consensus was?

Aside from the fact I don't want to get in trouble, I genuinely didn't believe I was in the wrong , but now I am questioning that.

Apologies again if this upsets anyone but I need to know.

TIA

OP posts:
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8
Plottingspringescape · 04/05/2023 08:36

I can't see a problem with the word in the context you used it. When you describe someone as camp, everyone knows the kind of flamboyant behaviour you mean. It is not as if you were suggesting he was gay, so I do not see the issue.

CurlewKate · 04/05/2023 08:37

It’s not necessarily homophobic, but why use it? Best to use neutral terms to describe people-talll, dark haired, wearing a red jumper…

growgrowinggrown · 04/05/2023 08:40

@CurlewKate how do any of those describe accurately someone's personality or behaviours?
I'd like to think people thought more of me than 'red jumper wearing'.

Tarantallegra · 04/05/2023 08:41

It will just be about protecting the company. Further down the line if you upset someone with homophobic language and it was brought to light that the company knew about it and did nothing they could be sued. This will just be a quick don't do this again because you don't know how this could be perceived by someone that doesn't know you and that'll be the end of it.

It's not about whether you were homophobic or not for them, it's just about not being sued.

Restforabit · 04/05/2023 08:42

It is personal, though. If you’re saying a TV programme is camp that’s one thing but saying an individual is?

DisquietintheRanks · 04/05/2023 08:42

Camp is very often used as an insult and would be regarded by very many men (gay and straight) as one. As such, if a person wants to describe themselves as camp, fine, but it's not a word I'd use in the workplace.

Midlander01 · 04/05/2023 08:43

Surely you were just repeating the way your colleague describes himself. And he's defended you in that.

Your manager sounds like an arse.

Nimbostratus100 · 04/05/2023 08:44

I think it is just a standard adjective

Tarantullah · 04/05/2023 08:44

CurlewKate · 04/05/2023 08:37

It’s not necessarily homophobic, but why use it? Best to use neutral terms to describe people-talll, dark haired, wearing a red jumper…

The colleague describes themselves as such, they are straight so if it's homophobic why haven't they been pulled up on using it in the workplace? Because the manager doesn't actually think it's offensive because in this context it isn't, but has done some online training at some point that suggests it might be so it heavy handedly making actually a serious accusation toward OP, its pathetic. If they don't want it used at work then they should have addressed it previously with the bloke using it. Nothing OP has said suggests that they said it to be derogatory, I'm sure if people used physical attributes to describe someone as you suggest they'd be pulled over hot coals.

Yet another example of taking it to ridiculous extremes.

SamShortForSambuca · 04/05/2023 08:45

As usual these things are context dependent, but the colleague has been describing himself as camp and is explicitly unoffended.

The manager needs to calm down and stop trying to be offended on behalf of someone else

Jonei · 04/05/2023 08:45

growgrowinggrown · 04/05/2023 08:40

@CurlewKate how do any of those describe accurately someone's personality or behaviours?
I'd like to think people thought more of me than 'red jumper wearing'.

Yep. A bland world with bland meaningless language.

Coffeeandbourbons · 04/05/2023 08:45

SunnySaturdayMorning · 04/05/2023 08:22

No, it’s not homophobic. People are just too quick to be offended on other peoples behalf these days.

This. Plenty of gay friends and family members who would say the same - always straight people getting offended on their behalf. Camp simply means flamboyant, not gay.

JeannieAlogy · 04/05/2023 08:46

If the person your manager assumed would be offended was not offended and uses the term to describe themselves, AND has spoken in your defence, your manager is being ridiculous.

If this is the first time you've made an 'error' like this in the workplace, then it should not need to go further.

DisquietintheRanks · 04/05/2023 08:47

Camp does not mean "flamboyant " Hmm

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 04/05/2023 08:47

My gay DS uses the word and doesn't consider it to be a slur/homophobic.

GlomOfNit · 04/05/2023 08:47

Jesus, it's not a homophobic slur!! Your manager is being Professionally Offended on behalf of someone who is not offended. Silly. I know of no gay men personally who'd think this was offensive.

As a previous poster pointed out, 'camp' is an attitude, a response, a way of thinking, and anyone can be camp. Would your manager be as outraged if you'd said a straight person was camp (as many straight people can be)?

JuneShitfield · 04/05/2023 08:48

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 04/05/2023 08:47

My gay DS uses the word and doesn't consider it to be a slur/homophobic.

Yes but if a straight person used it about him, it would sound and feel different, wouldn’t it?

Jonei · 04/05/2023 08:49

People just love to be offended on behalf of other people. Some have taken offensive on my behalf before. Not asked for and not wanted. It's just irritating virtue signalling. It's not as if they even give a shit.

Original poster
jamie98765 · 04/05/2023 08:49

CurlewKate · 04/05/2023 08:37

It’s not necessarily homophobic, but why use it? Best to use neutral terms to describe people-talll, dark haired, wearing a red jumper…

We were talking about a recent job where an all male team came across a vulnerable woman on the side of the road who was injured. (we believe from her partner). The team rang the police and wanted someone to sit with her as she was scared and believes to be a flight risk. It was decided that my colleague was the least intimidating because of his approach/personality, and he was asked to sit with a lady until help arrived.
We had been discussing this case and if anyone had heard anymore from it and how my colleague had done well and was the best for the role as he had been able to calm the women not intimidate her. It wasn't just an out of the blue decision to discuss his personality. Generally if someone asked me to describe him I would tend to say appearance over personality but in this conversation it was relevant and definitely not meant as an insult.

OP posts:
Coffeeandbourbons · 04/05/2023 08:50

JuneShitfield · 04/05/2023 08:48

Yes but if a straight person used it about him, it would sound and feel different, wouldn’t it?

Show quote history

But that hasn’t happened here. OP didn’t use it towards any gay man.

I actually had no idea it was a slur even if it was used about a gay man. So how would we inoffensively describe a gay man with a flamboyant personality or effeminate mannerisms?

JuneShitfield · 04/05/2023 08:50

Think of it this way — women can use the word ‘bitch’ quite lightly (depending on context of course).

But when a man uses the word ‘bitch’ it carries a very different social context and meaning. A lot of women who might describe themselves jokingly as ‘bitches’ might well take a step back if a man used the word about them. Even if it was meant benignly.

Restforabit · 04/05/2023 08:51

I don’t think camp is an applicable adjective at all in those circumstances.

Gentle, mild mannered, calm? But camp? Confused

Falt · 04/05/2023 08:51

Sissynova · 04/05/2023 08:28

It’s usually associated with being a slur for gay men so I don’t think it’s really appropriate in the workplace.

I honestly don't think so. It would only be a slur if the person was not or didn't want to be camp, in the same way "man" is not a slur if you're a man but would be if you are not or not trying to be (i.e you're a woman and trying to look like a woman).

It means flamboyant, exaggerated, theatrical, frivolous etc. Christ I just watched Next In Fashion and it came up loads with examples of a photoshoot done by Jennifer Cooladge (Stifler's Mom) who is probably camp but definitely not a gay man...

Now, if we're taking about the word "poof" then I'd say they had a point, as to me that's a word that is derogatory despite some gay men reclaiming or "owning" it. But I genuinely don't see how or when or why "camp" is a slur.

Bargellobitch · 04/05/2023 08:52

I think certain words are fine for self description but maybe not used by others. I'm a size 14 to 16 I'd say I'm fat but I'd never say it about others. Especially as for bigger people I'm on the edge of fatness.

I think although the person involved with almost always be fine with it if they use the word themselves. I'd be fine with somone saying fat as a description goes. But equally it is used as an insult as are lots of the similar words I'm thinking of like camp. So that's why it's best left alone. It is complicated though.

Comedycook · 04/05/2023 08:52

Camp could be used as a spur but not necessarily.....like a lot of words it depends on the context.