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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is not what parental leave is for?

409 replies

Friendlybreadbin · 03/05/2023 21:07

I may well BU but interested in people’s opinions. My company offers a fairly standard 25 days plus bank holidays leave package. New colleague comes from a company where they had been for over 20 years and so had got up to 30 days, their old company also offered a ‘buy an additional 10 days leave’ package. Our company doesn’t. Having passed their 3 month probation period (where they also took a lot of leave) they are using leave days like they are going out of fashion, and have already had a skiing holiday and an all inclusive this year. As well as lots of other random days off, it’s seems rare they work a full week. Have been openly saying that they intend to take unpaid leave because they can’t see how they will possibly manage on 25 days when they were used to 40 days and asking how does anyone do that with kids? I have not dissimilar aged kids and have managed with 25 days for my whole career. There are no special needs or circumstances. Their job is flexible and from home.
AIBU that they should learn to manage within their holiday allowance that they accepted by contract? Or as the extra leave is unpaid is this an acceptable strategy? It seems to me they intend to exploit parental leave just because they feel entitled to more holiday than they are contracted to have.
Our company charges customers rates for their time and will therefore lose revenue as we can’t charge when they are OOO. I am their line manager.
I have managed people for 20 years and have never come across anyone with this attitude before, when I have managed people who have taken parental leave it has been for understandable reasons.

OP posts:
GeraltsBathtub · 03/05/2023 23:55

Tigofigo · 03/05/2023 23:53

Good for you.

I want to take the whole of next summer off...

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My boss is taking off all of August and I’ve seen our seniors do similar as well, I think it sets a good example!

Jemandthehologramsunite · 03/05/2023 23:56

GeraltsBathtub · 03/05/2023 23:47

It’s hardly entitled to want to go on holiday. You don’t need to have kids to deserve time off. A lot of places have career break or unpaid leave policies nowadays so that people can go on longer trips or do whatever. I don’t think the girl you mention was being unreasonable to request any of this.

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What stood out to me from the OP is the person rarely works a full week. Most business wouldn't survive if everyone did this. I think a work/life balance is great, but this sounds unsustainable long term. I can't say I've ever worked somewhere where someone did this almost every week, how would that even work in practical terms, unless it's the kind of job where output/time doesn't matter

TooOldForThisNonsense · 03/05/2023 23:57

Friendlybreadbin · 03/05/2023 21:37

They intend to ask for unpaid leave this summer and then have parental leave once they have been here a year.
As I said in the OP, I may very well BU here, and indeed some have suggested that I am - fair enough, I’ll take that on board. But as I say, I have managed people for many years and have never before come across this sense of entitlement to take additional leave in this manner. So it surprised me.

Surely you can just decline the unpaid leave if it doesn’t suit the needs of the business? You aren’t obliged to grant it. Even when they are entitled to take parental leave it can be rescheduled to suit the business needs.

Sounds like you aren’t great at managing their annual leave either tbh. Why are you letting them take all this leave so soon after starting when they haven’t accrued it yet?

you can’t really complain at people trying their luck when you don’t actually manage them properly

StJulian2023 · 03/05/2023 23:58

Thanks for this thread. I’m going to take my first weeks of parental leave next year, and the thread’s made me decide to take more than I was originally planning to.

MeinKraft · 04/05/2023 00:00

I take parental leave every summer. A couple of weeks spending time at home with my kids, in and out of the paddling pool or away to the beach is worth it's weight in gold. Certainly much nicer than finding childcare for them while I sit in the office and work on spreadsheets nobody really cares about.

EatYourVegetables · 04/05/2023 00:04

Late capitalism at its best.

NurseEssie · 04/05/2023 00:06

AngryBirdsNoMore · 03/05/2023 23:28

This is a fascinating insight.

I had no idea people took parental unpaid leave routinely for holidays and whatnot. Didn’t even consider that was an option!

Same. My mind is exploding with possibilities right now Grin

OMG12 · 04/05/2023 00:09

Wow, I have totally missed this legislation!!! I’m going to start using this! How did I miss it!

puffylovett · 04/05/2023 00:13

I’m another who has always thought that parental leave is for emegencies, ie if your child had to have an operation or something g. Mind blown!

TruthRevolution · 04/05/2023 00:21

I have 3 DC and have been a parent for 21 years and have never known of anyone taking parental leave in this way.
Times are changing though and I can see why people take it.

Nobody in my team has ever requested it either.

From a manager's perspective, I can't pretend it wouldn't be a headache though!

Labraradabrador · 04/05/2023 00:29

You’ve received a lot of harsh responses, but I completely understand why this is frustrating and challenging as a manager responsible for client delivery. |f they are following company and governmental guidelines for leave, then there isn’t much you can push back against. But I would expect higher than average leave rates to weigh into performance assessments

Viviennemary · 04/05/2023 00:46

I didnt think unpaid leave was a right unless needed for caring responsibilities. Not just to be used as extra holidays.

TaraRhu · 04/05/2023 00:48

JustMarriedBecca · 03/05/2023 21:13

They're entitled to take unpaid parental leave for whatever purpose they want, they are not required to run it by you.
If you don't like the legislation, take it up with the Government. Your employee is doing nothing wrong.

And I cannot ABIDE this whole "I suffered managing on 25 days so so should they" attitude. People never used to get maternity benefit either - are we assuming that should go too because 30 years ago it wasn't available.

This exactly. No one dies wishing they'd spent more time at work. Lack of leave to cover school holidays is a real problem for working parents. We get nothing to help with costs but are 'allowed' unpaid paternal leave.

Simonjt · 04/05/2023 05:57

I take four weeks of parental leave each year, surely taking paid holiday is actually more entitled due to cost in wages and NI to an employer.

Mortimercat · 04/05/2023 06:04

Friendlybreadbin · 03/05/2023 21:37

They intend to ask for unpaid leave this summer and then have parental leave once they have been here a year.
As I said in the OP, I may very well BU here, and indeed some have suggested that I am - fair enough, I’ll take that on board. But as I say, I have managed people for many years and have never before come across this sense of entitlement to take additional leave in this manner. So it surprised me.

If you are the line manager and you require her to be in work, then you don’t have to approve the unpaid leave request this year. If you think it is unlikely to be something that you will agree to, why not set her expectations now.

If she wants parental leave next year then she is entitled to it, but you are allowed to have a say as to when exactly she takes it and can choose a time that best suits the business.

monotonemusings · 04/05/2023 06:10

Unpaid parental leave - fine - there will be a policy. It has to be taken in week chunks and the business is allowed to say no with good reason and offer another date.

User5438790 · 04/05/2023 06:11

its unpaid so no different to people working part time.

monotonemusings · 04/05/2023 06:11

Friendlybreadbin · 03/05/2023 21:37

They intend to ask for unpaid leave this summer and then have parental leave once they have been here a year.
As I said in the OP, I may very well BU here, and indeed some have suggested that I am - fair enough, I’ll take that on board. But as I say, I have managed people for many years and have never before come across this sense of entitlement to take additional leave in this manner. So it surprised me.

Unpaid leave is different- speak to HR

User5438790 · 04/05/2023 06:13

A colleague of mine used to use it for holidays but always gave plenty of notice.

MrsMikeDrop · 04/05/2023 06:18

Mortimercat · 04/05/2023 06:04

If you are the line manager and you require her to be in work, then you don’t have to approve the unpaid leave request this year. If you think it is unlikely to be something that you will agree to, why not set her expectations now.

If she wants parental leave next year then she is entitled to it, but you are allowed to have a say as to when exactly she takes it and can choose a time that best suits the business.

Show quote history

You're the manager OP, it sounds like this person is doing 70-80% of a normal employee? I'd say that's grounds to start a discussion, doesn't seem fair to the rest of your team, if they're always on leave and the rest of the team has to pick up the load. Maybe suggest they go part time as it sounds like that's really what they're after.

User5438790 · 04/05/2023 06:21

You could buy leave up to 10 days where I used to work, you could also sell leave down to the statutory minimum, it was one of my favourite policies that the company did, I would have missed it if another company didn't do it.

Coffeesnob11 · 04/05/2023 06:27

I am a lone parent who gets 27 days leave. My child has 63 days holidays a year (excluding bank holidays). One of my clients can buy up to 5 weeks extra holidays a year,which they do to have their kids during the holidays. Mine doesn't offer that and business wise it would not work me being off for extra time foe parental leave but I wish that my company had a similar buy back scheme and supported people who needed extra leave for whatever reason. It's a dangerous game to think well I have never needed it. We should support policies that help everyone, you never know when you may need it for a completely different reason.

prescribingmum · 04/05/2023 06:28

I had a manager who was a bit like how you are coming across. She was resentful of the maternity leave provision I had because she didn’t have similar 15 years prior and seemed to think I should have been abandoning my accrued annual leave because maternity leave was so generous now. I left before my children got to school age because she would have given me endless barriers to needing time for school events, holidays and sickness.

As a manager, you should be implementing your organisation policies on unpaid leave to this employee (which I imagine they researched before taking the job) and same for parental leave. Your opinion on the rest is irrelevant

crazyaboutcats · 04/05/2023 06:29

Is it actually causing an issue if they do?

We get 10 days plus stat hoildays as standard but I negotiated 20 and then take another 5-15 days unpaid.

I never asked permission to do so I just put in my requests which are approved unless work is already booked in, and am warned that it is may be unpaid. The first time I said 'sure' I think the were a bit shocked but they've come to know me and how much I value time off particularly to spend with family.

Beezknees · 04/05/2023 06:29

Sounds good to me. I couldn't afford to take too much parental leave, but if I could do it to spend as much time with my child as possible I certainly would.