To think this is not what parental leave is for?

[Friendlybreadbin]

I may well BU but interested in people’s opinions. My company offers a fairly standard 25 days plus bank holidays leave package. New colleague comes from a company where they had been for over 20 years and so had got up to 30 days, their old company also offered a ‘buy an additional 10 days leave’ package. Our company doesn’t. Having passed their 3 month probation period (where they also took a lot of leave) they are using leave days like they are going out of fashion, and have already had a skiing holiday and an all inclusive this year. As well as lots of other random days off, it’s seems rare they work a full week. Have been openly saying that they intend to take unpaid leave because they can’t see how they will possibly manage on 25 days when they were used to 40 days and asking how does anyone do that with kids? I have not dissimilar aged kids and have managed with 25 days for my whole career. There are no special needs or circumstances. Their job is flexible and from home.
AIBU that they should learn to manage within their holiday allowance that they accepted by contract? Or as the extra leave is unpaid is this an acceptable strategy? It seems to me they intend to exploit parental leave just because they feel entitled to more holiday than they are contracted to have.
Our company charges customers rates for their time and will therefore lose revenue as we can’t charge when they are OOO. I am their line manager.
I have managed people for 20 years and have never come across anyone with this attitude before, when I have managed people who have taken parental leave it has been for understandable reasons.

And thank you OP for such an interesting thread - I learnt lots!

In the PP document it states that parental leave has to be in blocks of one week , 4 weeks maximum in a year and not available in the first year of employment . It also has to be booked in advance and can be refused OR cancelled if things get too busy in work and in that case should be re-booked within that twelve month period . In other words she is not allowed to take the odd day off just because she wants to .
Of course days can be taken in an emergency
ie if child ill or child minder let’s them down .

Its not the same as emergency dependents leave. It needs to be booked in advance in blocks of at least 1 week.

When I was working as a civil servant we had the opportunity to go term time. I took an additional 4 weeks unpaid so that I could spend 2 weeks at Christmas and 2 weeks during the summer with my son. We could have a total of 13 weeks in addition to our 25 /30 days annual leave (dependent on when they joined determined if they had 25 or 30)

Employees had to put in a request for the unpaid leave with an explanation- it didn’t have to be for childcare but I believe that is what it was intended/expected to be used for. There was no request for evidence or anything to prove that was the reason of the unpaid leave.

I have friends who work in retail who also work term time.

Is this gentleman not looking to request a similar arrangement?

Oh dear the sense of entitlement bleeding out.

Businesses cannot function with idiots taking time off as they choose.

It’s not a sense of entitlement, it’s a legal right as has been established. People who don’t take parental leave if they can afford it are really missing out in my opinion. It’s a lovely way to spend time with kids

You're the type who never takes holidays and stays overtime for free aren't you?

Business LITERALLY have to function with people taking time off as they chose - whilst they can say certain times are off limits, any booked holiday is when employees chose and some people will just fake sickness as well. Businesses have to have plans in place for people being off.

It’s a poorly managed business that can’t cope with its employees taking off their legal entitlement to leave.

My child is 5 and I can’t believe I didn’t know about this. I now intend to use the whole 18 weeks before she turns 18.

Well, that makes it ripe for abuse and lies. Just go from job to job and take the max at every job you have.

So they are taking their annual leave to go skiing. And parental leave to look after their child?

On all application forms they need to explain why they are taking the time off? If this isn't to look after her children, then I would agree that you should question this, otherwise if you think it is a fake application, take it up with HR.

Are you out of your mind OP, 5 weeks is nothing and it’s less than nothing with kids. Get a grip!

You're the type who never takes holidays and stays overtime for free aren't you?
I know someone like this. They seem to think it's a badge of honour to put work above everything.
I have to switch off when they talk about work because it inevitably turns into why they are amazing and hardworking and most of their colleagues are lazy. 🙄

I get that it's an legal entitlement, so employees can do this, learn something new on here every day..obviously mainly applies to better paid jobs as low wage can't usually afford it but I can see some businesses might be hesitant to employ parents/ those of parental age if they have to accommodate approx 5 weeks AL plus bank holidays, 1 week parental leave, 1 week carers, 3 weeks sick(3 lots of self certification without doctors notes in a rolling year seems to be standard.) Not right but I bet some do think about it.

I get that it's an legal entitlement, so employees can do this, learn something new on here every day..obviously mainly applies to better paid jobs as low wage can't usually afford it but I can see some businesses might be hesitant to employ parents/ those of parental age if they have to accommodate approx 5 weeks AL plus bank holidays, 1 week parental leave, 1 week carers, 3 weeks sick(3 lots of self certification without doctors notes in a rolling year seems to be standard.) Not right but I bet some do think about it.

Yes... in the same way that businesses think twice about employing women of child-bearing in case they get pregnant and go on maternity leave. Discrimination happens. But it's wrong, illegal, and does NOT mean we shouldn't be asserting our rights.

I know someone like this. They seem to think it's a badge of honour to put work above everything.
I have to switch off when they talk about work because it inevitably turns into why they are amazing and hardworking and most of their colleagues are lazy. 🙄

I actually used to be like this myself. Thank goodness i grew up.

My child is 5 and I can’t believe I didn’t know about this. I now intend to use the whole 18 weeks before she turns 18.

Yay! So glad!

But your employer can say no to the unpaid leave request? I’m not sure why this bothers you. You too can ask for unpaid leave if you want.

lots of people work part time or term time - for less pay - surely this is no different. If it doesn’t suit the business the request gets declined:

Unless you line manage them, it’s not really any of your concern. If you do line manage them and authorise leave for them and it’s impacting their ability to do their job or the team, then you maybe need to look at how you are managing their requests!

I don't agree with the feeling that "I didn't benefit from it, so why should others?" and I think it is good that there is far more employment flexibility for parents.

But surely, so far as unpaid leave is concerned, there should be a degree of consideration too on the part of the employee, particularly if regular absences negatively affect co-workers or the company's efficiency/profits? And does the employee have a partner? Surely he/she is also entitled to some of these flexibilities?

A friend has a colleague taking the proverbial like this. Blame spineless management for not getting a grip. Colleague bogged off to Greece for three months, pretended to work from there (impossible) and has now 'got stranded' there for another two weeks. Load of absolute cobblers. Friend got ill and faced an HR enquiry.

A friend has a colleague taking the proverbial like this. Blame spineless management for not getting a grip. Colleague bogged off to Greece for three months, pretended to work from there (impossible) and has now 'got stranded' there for another two weeks. Load of absolute cobblers. Friend got ill and faced an HR enquiry.
That sounds like a difficult situation for your friend, however your friend's colleague pretending to work from a remote location and her own poor treatment at the hands of HR has nothing to do with other people taking legally entitled leave and having it approved through the appropriate channels.

I can understand the perspectives but why couldn't they do their duties from Greece ?

Frontline medical staff. Did two hours paperwork remotely each day and the other team members did the rest of her job. She was on full pay, obviously. Just because something is legal, the needs of the rest of the team should be taken into account.

In practice most people can't afford to take that much unpaid leave so it regulates itself