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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is not what parental leave is for?

409 replies

Friendlybreadbin · 03/05/2023 21:07

I may well BU but interested in people’s opinions. My company offers a fairly standard 25 days plus bank holidays leave package. New colleague comes from a company where they had been for over 20 years and so had got up to 30 days, their old company also offered a ‘buy an additional 10 days leave’ package. Our company doesn’t. Having passed their 3 month probation period (where they also took a lot of leave) they are using leave days like they are going out of fashion, and have already had a skiing holiday and an all inclusive this year. As well as lots of other random days off, it’s seems rare they work a full week. Have been openly saying that they intend to take unpaid leave because they can’t see how they will possibly manage on 25 days when they were used to 40 days and asking how does anyone do that with kids? I have not dissimilar aged kids and have managed with 25 days for my whole career. There are no special needs or circumstances. Their job is flexible and from home.
AIBU that they should learn to manage within their holiday allowance that they accepted by contract? Or as the extra leave is unpaid is this an acceptable strategy? It seems to me they intend to exploit parental leave just because they feel entitled to more holiday than they are contracted to have.
Our company charges customers rates for their time and will therefore lose revenue as we can’t charge when they are OOO. I am their line manager.
I have managed people for 20 years and have never come across anyone with this attitude before, when I have managed people who have taken parental leave it has been for understandable reasons.

OP posts:
Snoopsnoggysnog · 03/05/2023 22:13

Cantstaystuckforever · 03/05/2023 21:16

Maybe it's a sign for you to take some more leave with your kids?

I've often had the same guilt feelings you have about taking leave, letting down my team etc - and now I look back and wonder why I passed up spending precious weeks with my kids when they were so little, for the sake of a week's pay or for showing my 'willing' to bosses or coworkers who I'm unlikely to see again and who ultimately didn't care that much.

So long as when they are in the office, they're working properly, that's most important. They're not being paid for their extra time off, even if they're also not earning. And instead of feeling jealous, either acknowledge that you have different priorities, or let them do some extra cover when you reorganise things so you can do the same and take the leave.

Totally this!

I’ve taken it myself and have just put a request in to take some again this year. I’m amazed people don’t know about it. But can understand it’s not affordable to everyone.

OP my firm also charges clients for our time daily. I worked out how much my time off would cost them in terms of lost revenue. It was something like 0.01% of annual sales. So I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

GeraltsBathtub · 03/05/2023 22:14

@Womencanlift I was offered a job last year at a company that only offered 25 days and no option to buy more. I turned it down for that reason + them only offering SMP!

Facetyme · 03/05/2023 22:16

JandalsAlways · 03/05/2023 21:58

Taking lots of leave would be a red flag to me, usually this is where you're trying to get up to speed etc, depending on other factors it would indicate to me that the person wasn't that interested in their job (and it sounds like they aren't if they're always wanting to go away).

Show quote history

Tell me you’re over 40 without telling me you’re over 40.

GeraltsBathtub · 03/05/2023 22:18

JandalsAlways · 03/05/2023 21:58

Taking lots of leave would be a red flag to me, usually this is where you're trying to get up to speed etc, depending on other factors it would indicate to me that the person wasn't that interested in their job (and it sounds like they aren't if they're always wanting to go away).

Show quote history

Never had a job where my probation was contingent on showing sufficient enthusiasm. Usually it’s about meeting objectives and work being up to scratch…

Tigofigo · 03/05/2023 22:19

Oinkypig · 03/05/2023 21:49

People don’t realise that while entitled to annual leave they are not entitled as to when that is taken so if it doesn’t fit with activity in the business then decline the leave. Parental leave people are entitled to but if it doesn’t work for legitimate business reasons it can be declined (although an alternative week has to be offered within the next 6 months) Hopefully you can work it out

It can only be postponed - not declined - for good business reason. Unless you work in a very seasonal business you're just kicking the can down the road and pissing your employee off.

OP the unpaid leave thing is definitely a risky strategy for that employee unless it's in their contract.

But parental leave can absolutely be taken for ANY reason related to your children pretty much, and your attitude towards it needs checking. How can you exploit something you are legally entitled to?

Plus - 25 days off would cover 5 weeks. Children have 13 weeks' holiday per year. Plus another 5 or 6 days in strikes this year with 2/3 yet to come. Plus they get ill and have inset days. Overall this year it will probably total 15 weeks off school for my DC.

Most families would like at least 2 weeks' a year together over say Christmas and summer, I don't think that's unreasonable. That leaves 7 weeks not covered - even if parents spent every day of their leave looking after their kids (god forbid they actually take a day off leave only for themselves!!). So by that logic, you think children should spend 7 weeks of their holidays in full time childcare and parents shouldn't even have a day off holiday for themselves.

Sounds like a pretty shit life.

JandalsAlways · 03/05/2023 22:21

GeraltsBathtub · 03/05/2023 22:18

Never had a job where my probation was contingent on showing sufficient enthusiasm. Usually it’s about meeting objectives and work being up to scratch…

Show quote history

I agree generally, but I would think this also might be a factor. (I've also taken leave in the first 3 months, I'm just saying this may be an indication as many things are, and as OP has said its now becoming an issue 🤷‍♀️)

Stokey · 03/05/2023 22:22

@JandalsAlways I've recently started a new job but already had a 2 week break booked over Easter. So I worked for 4 weeks and then was off for 2 weeks. I was totally up front about it but wasn't prepared to cancel my holiday just because I was changing jobs.

If they've taken lots of leave during their probation period OP, presumably they'll have less later in the year. This is what will happen to me.

AfraidToRun · 03/05/2023 22:22

It would annoy me as an employer, would make cover and resourcing very difficult but I can see why people take it.

I think it's fine as long as there's a conversation about when was best for both parties (e.g in my job any leave in April is usually very restricted but July would be fairly open).

rosiebl · 03/05/2023 22:23

I work in the industry of clients paying for time and this situation is a disaster for planning in pipeline if work and ensuring the right levels of billability to be profitable as an organisation.
I think I would involve your HR team as what's happening is setting up custom and practice for the future. I would suggest that you organise a meeting with her to review her absences, and start to problem solve on why she is absent so frequently. It might be better for her to go part time if she prefers?
Honestly though, I would get rid.

Pussycatbeen · 03/05/2023 22:25

25 days is not much at all and we should be creating more time to spend with loved ones, not less.

Seahorse87 · 03/05/2023 22:27

I’m with you OP. It does seem a bit entitled…25 days is still 5 days over the statutory minimum so not bad!

Isn’t taking unpaid leave is generally for exceptional circumstances rather than just extending family holidays? I do see parental leave can be used for a lot of different reasons but my understanding was that it to benefit the child if they are sick, going through a hard time etc? Maybe I’m wrong.

JandalsAlways · 03/05/2023 22:28

Stokey · 03/05/2023 22:22

@JandalsAlways I've recently started a new job but already had a 2 week break booked over Easter. So I worked for 4 weeks and then was off for 2 weeks. I was totally up front about it but wasn't prepared to cancel my holiday just because I was changing jobs.

If they've taken lots of leave during their probation period OP, presumably they'll have less later in the year. This is what will happen to me.

I've done that too, at a couple of new jobs. One of them almost 4 weeks, holiday overseas that was already booked. It all depends on other factors too (being upfront, not piss taking in general etc).

Hawkins003 · 03/05/2023 22:29

Reading with intrigue

Facetyme · 03/05/2023 22:29

Seahorse87 · 03/05/2023 22:27

I’m with you OP. It does seem a bit entitled…25 days is still 5 days over the statutory minimum so not bad!

Isn’t taking unpaid leave is generally for exceptional circumstances rather than just extending family holidays? I do see parental leave can be used for a lot of different reasons but my understanding was that it to benefit the child if they are sick, going through a hard time etc? Maybe I’m wrong.

Do you not think more time with parents is beneficial to a child?

and it’s entitled because she is entitled to it, as are most employees

AngryBirdsNoMore · 03/05/2023 22:31

N4ish · 03/05/2023 21:23

If your company allows staff to take unpaid leave then it really is none of your business what your colleague chooses to do with it. If her being absent causes problems or means more work lands on you then that’s something you need to take up with management or HR.

OP is the manager. Read the post…

KittyAlfred · 03/05/2023 22:32

YANBU.
if someone wants that much unpaid leave (and can afford it) why not get a part time job instead ?

JandalsAlways · 03/05/2023 22:35

rosiebl · 03/05/2023 22:23

I work in the industry of clients paying for time and this situation is a disaster for planning in pipeline if work and ensuring the right levels of billability to be profitable as an organisation.
I think I would involve your HR team as what's happening is setting up custom and practice for the future. I would suggest that you organise a meeting with her to review her absences, and start to problem solve on why she is absent so frequently. It might be better for her to go part time if she prefers?
Honestly though, I would get rid.

Ditto. OP has said the person rarely works a full week, this would have a huge impact where I work. All depends on the role of course, but if you don't really need to be there ... then you probably don't need to be there ...

TruthRevolution · 03/05/2023 22:37

I am a manager and would be checking my company policy and consulting with HR for the correct advice.

Maternityleavelady · 03/05/2023 22:38

I can’t wait to tap into this parental leave thing when my 2 DC start school. Am I right in thinking that as I have 2 kids I will get 36 weeks unpaid leave in total until the 2nd one is 18? So average 2-3 extra weeks per year? Will definitely help if so!

LolaSmiles · 03/05/2023 22:39

Never had a job where my probation was contingent on showing sufficient enthusiasm. Usually it’s about meeting objectives and work being up to scratch
Same here.It's also become a red flag to me if anywhere thinks that the job and meeting some arbitrary level of devotion to the workplace is essential.

Some people have got to the point where there workaholics, have prioritised their work over family and consequently view others who enjoy a home life and want to do their job well as being slackers.

Songbird54321 · 03/05/2023 22:43

I don't think I'd choose you as my manager and you definitely wouldn't choose me as an employee by the sounds of it. I do not live to work, I work to live.
I go to work because I have to but to me, it's just a job that pays the bills. I'd drop it in a second for my kids.
I thankfully have a supportive manager and I regularly take annual leave to be with my kids, go to assemblies, sports days, school trips etc.
It's my leave to do with as I please. I'd be peeved if I was even asked why I wanted it.
Unpaid leave is not the same and is at the company's discretion, so you don't have to approve it, but I'd be expecting a good reason as to why not.

Houseplantmad · 03/05/2023 22:45

I don’t understand. The staff member was taking time off which didn’t suit the business pre probation review so why wasn’t this addressed at that time if you are their line manager?

AnObserverInThisDarkWorld · 03/05/2023 22:47

It's not being entitled if they are able to do it.

You're their line manager - surely you have to approve additional days off unpaid?

Speaking to HR and seeing what their contract says is important - if they are breaking their contract or their work isn't up to scratch then you have something to work on.

But mostly you just sound bitter they are enjoying life

Facetyme · 03/05/2023 22:50

KittyAlfred · 03/05/2023 22:32

YANBU.
if someone wants that much unpaid leave (and can afford it) why not get a part time job instead ?

It’s a couple of weeks a year. Hardly part time job level

afterdropshock · 03/05/2023 22:52

In answer to the thread title, yes that is what parental leave is for.
I took 8 weeks after my mat leave with my third child. And my husband takes the odd day here and there when we are really stuck for childcare.
Thanks for reminding me. We must have quite a bit left and it would be great to fit in one big adventure over the Summer holidays with the children over the next few years.