To think this is not what parental leave is for?

[Friendlybreadbin]

I may well BU but interested in people’s opinions. My company offers a fairly standard 25 days plus bank holidays leave package. New colleague comes from a company where they had been for over 20 years and so had got up to 30 days, their old company also offered a ‘buy an additional 10 days leave’ package. Our company doesn’t. Having passed their 3 month probation period (where they also took a lot of leave) they are using leave days like they are going out of fashion, and have already had a skiing holiday and an all inclusive this year. As well as lots of other random days off, it’s seems rare they work a full week. Have been openly saying that they intend to take unpaid leave because they can’t see how they will possibly manage on 25 days when they were used to 40 days and asking how does anyone do that with kids? I have not dissimilar aged kids and have managed with 25 days for my whole career. There are no special needs or circumstances. Their job is flexible and from home.
AIBU that they should learn to manage within their holiday allowance that they accepted by contract? Or as the extra leave is unpaid is this an acceptable strategy? It seems to me they intend to exploit parental leave just because they feel entitled to more holiday than they are contracted to have.
Our company charges customers rates for their time and will therefore lose revenue as we can’t charge when they are OOO. I am their line manager.
I have managed people for 20 years and have never come across anyone with this attitude before, when I have managed people who have taken parental leave it has been for understandable reasons.

But could cause difficulties for the business if the role is full time. Who is going to do whatever needs doing when this person is not at work?

Ahh, I live in the US now where 10-15 days is a norm if you’re lucky! I probably come across similarly when talking about my days in Europe and 25 days + bank holidays. 40 I can’t even imagine but sounds like a dream.

I think if eligible then parental leave can be used for anything, so if it’s yet another skiing trip, then so be it.

Quite.

What an awful person, actually prioritising spending time with their family over slaving away at work when they are legally entitled to do so 🙄

I have no children and struggle with the 6 weeks leave I have tbh. I never adjusted from working in a school where I got 13.

I work really long days now and more time off would be amazing

Work to live… don’t live to work!! Life’s too short for that

I have saved up my annual leave when I can but have needed to use parental leave in the summer hols every year since my kids were born. I use about 10 days unpaid & take a month off every year. I work at a university. I feel lucky to be able to do it but it’s why I work at a Uni.

Life is short- spend time with your family!

"Parental leave" is an actual seperate thing

Thank you so much for sharing this, I had no idea I was entitled to this

Are you this person's manager?

The employee hasn’t worked a full week.

But they are entitled to take it. Its designed to help parents manage. I only took it twice, 2 blocks of 2 weeks, because that then gave me sufficient to mop up the days my kids were off sick etc.
Yes it's a luxury cos it's unpaid but don't moan about people using it. It was hard fought for.

Not really if the expectation is that the person is there to work at other times. You can’t just swan off work when it suits you if it impacts the business just because it’s unpaid.

however this is the OP’s job to manage instead of moaning about the employee taking time off that seems for whatever reason to have been permitted

The reason for taking leave is immaterial as is any attitude.

The issue for you is managing the workload.

Why did you authorise ad hoc days off every week if that is bad for organising work?

You are the line manager.

You need to authorise any leave taken.
You need to cover the workload and ensure it is done.

If work requires someone to be there five days a week for a project then don't authorise single day leave unless in an emergency.

She's giving you plenty of notice for taking unpaid leave, so you need to assess business need against the HR policy.

If there is a problem for the business then YOU need to address and manage it.

There is also the risk that if you don't approve, she'll take sick. Cheeky but I've seen people do it.
It also sounds like you're in consultancy or some other billable business which isn't conducive to any leave type of mindset. I'd be considering if I needed another resource so everyone can take their entitlements.

It’s irrelevant what type of holidays she enjoys, skiing or sitting on her bum tbh.
I’ve never had an employee use parental leave really, I did when Ds was tiny and in hospital. Not many people can afford it.
Does your company have a guideline of how many days can be taken in one period. I would out how much per quarter etc. If someone leaves having used more than the YTD entitlement they would have that deducted.
I think you’ve listened to people on this thread and perhaps do have a slightly dated approach. In some industries, things are more flexible and in some, for example yours, maybe there needs to be a clear understanding on both sides of expectations and why leave needs to be taken in a certain framed way.

Side note but interesting to see some PPs have referred to the employee as 'she'. In my head they were clearly male but I've just reread the OP to see they've not mentioned sex

True. I tend to assume most people on here are female unless specifically informed otherwise! It actually sounds like quite male behaviour when I think about it though

Taking time off work to spend it with your children and take them on holiday us “male behaviour”?

Lots of people are totally unaware of the unpaid statutory leave. I fully intend to take it once my youngest is in school for at least a week. In the scheme of things it makes very little difference to the employer if you’re only taking an extra week. For 2 kids in holiday camp for 4 days it would be around £400 for me, by the time I’ve then commuted etc then yes I’m losing out because of unpaid leave but not by a huge amount.

Unless you’re their line manager and it’s causing an issue for the business then it’s none of your concern. Sounds like they have the right attitude to life in my opinion! If you can afford to take unpaid and it’s authorised why wouldn’t you

Life is short! Take the days off and don't begrudge others who do. If its unpaid leave I don't see the issue it's not like they are using paid sick leave to go away with the family for a week or something like that. Family time is important!!

Read the parental leave guidance. Regardless of what you consider an attitude problem, if they are entitled to it then you need to follow the law and guidance.

I'm sure parental leave has you be taken as a block. I don't think they can split it up as it suits them. They may also change their mind when they realise how sort they are in their pay x

As an ex-HR Manager and HR Consultant, I am yet to come across a company that genuinely gives a shit about its staff. They will happily oust you, as soon as their profits drop.

Also, employees are either fully aware of their rights and entitlements or take the piss. My own workplace is a good example. I have the least sickness in my operation. 1 day in 3 years. Others have months and months of sickness and despite a clear HR policy, it is not enforced. Some of the people I work with are off with headaches, and lack of sleep (from clubbing to 4 am) and some are genuine. I end up doing both their and my work and we are already short-staffed as it is. I get my holiday rejected as we don't have enough staff at those times.

So, I've decided to look at our HR and see what the guidelines are. I have a few things I need to do, and I won't get the holiday approved, so I'll be throwing a sickie. It is not something I have ever done, but at some point if you can't beat them, you have to join them.

I’m an employment lawyer so I was aware of this right fairly early on and I’ve taken parental leave myself to spend time with the kids in school holidays.

It used to only apply to children under 5 though (or 18 for a disabled child) and wasn’t as generous as 18 weeks. Even so, spread over your child’s “young” life, it’s only an extra week a year (and it isn’t per employer, it’s a cumulative entitlement, so you couldn’t take your 18 weeks, move to another job and take another 18 weeks - although I suspect it’s never checked)

It’s still rarely used though and employers can put blocks in the way of you taking it. For example you might need the leave for childcare during school holidays, but if it clashed with another employee already on leave then they’d be within their rights to postpone it to another time where less employees are on leave outside of the school holidays (which makes it far less useful).

Then if you’re in an industry like mine, full of old school boys, you’ll be judged heavily for using it (although ironically my male colleague was judged far more heavily than I was and ended up cancelling his leave as a result). On one request I also had an HR Manager ask me “why did you take a full time job if you want part time hours?”

It made my working life a lot easier though when it was actually approved so I think it’s a good thing! Hopefully things have moved on a bit and it isn’t as frowned on now as when I took it 10 years ago.