To think this is not what parental leave is for?

[Friendlybreadbin]

I may well BU but interested in people’s opinions. My company offers a fairly standard 25 days plus bank holidays leave package. New colleague comes from a company where they had been for over 20 years and so had got up to 30 days, their old company also offered a ‘buy an additional 10 days leave’ package. Our company doesn’t. Having passed their 3 month probation period (where they also took a lot of leave) they are using leave days like they are going out of fashion, and have already had a skiing holiday and an all inclusive this year. As well as lots of other random days off, it’s seems rare they work a full week. Have been openly saying that they intend to take unpaid leave because they can’t see how they will possibly manage on 25 days when they were used to 40 days and asking how does anyone do that with kids? I have not dissimilar aged kids and have managed with 25 days for my whole career. There are no special needs or circumstances. Their job is flexible and from home.
AIBU that they should learn to manage within their holiday allowance that they accepted by contract? Or as the extra leave is unpaid is this an acceptable strategy? It seems to me they intend to exploit parental leave just because they feel entitled to more holiday than they are contracted to have.
Our company charges customers rates for their time and will therefore lose revenue as we can’t charge when they are OOO. I am their line manager.
I have managed people for 20 years and have never come across anyone with this attitude before, when I have managed people who have taken parental leave it has been for understandable reasons.

It’s not entitlement to take statutory leave that you’re entitled to take.

You sounds like you have a very old school management style and rigid approach to the workplace.

You might be right…I’ll think about that.

If they’ve come from an organisation that lets you buy additional leave, it’s not surprising that it is something they are used to.

My company reduced my leave entitlement by 3 days shortly after I started and the introduced a policy allowing you to buy additional (up to 3 days, what a coincidence). I take unpaid leave too.

My partner can buy up to 15 days and mostly does.

Time is more important than money. You can make more money, you can’t make more time.

The OP has said they’ve worked very few full weeks so it’s likely that they will look at more ad-hoc days rather than blocks.

OP, I’m very curious about your part in this. You say you’re the line manager but you don’t seem to be actively managing this person at all.

Why have you let them book so much leave so far this year if you feel it impacts on billing and overall performance, especially during a probation period?

They aren't entitled to it though. They plan to take unpaid leave this year. You can say no to that OP.

Next year onwards though, good on them for using parental leave.

I’m afraid I can understand their point of view. Before children I was happy to work long hours, very long hours most of the time and would go in early/leave late, even go in over the weekend to get work done. Now I have children I see it so differently.

I’m sure this has been said but if you’re their line manager shouldn’t you be clued up on the different types of leave and what they are entitled to? Do they have to book leave through you? If so can’t you just say no (unless they are entitled to it), where I work unpaid leave is discretionary, parental leave entitlement is obviously not.

People don’t realise that while entitled to annual leave they are not entitled as to when that is taken so if it doesn’t fit with activity in the business then decline the leave. Parental leave people are entitled to but if it doesn’t work for legitimate business reasons it can be declined (although an alternative week has to be offered within the next 6 months) Hopefully you can work it out

Why did they pass their probation period if they took lots of leave (red flag). Also I thought your leave being approved is dependent on your line manager (you) and the workload, deadlines, and impact on the team. If you're the line manager then you need to set the boundaries.

You're doing well to take the comments on board, OP. I'm sure that makes you a good manager in lots of ways.

I'm absolutely in favour people taking whatever holidays they can (legitimately) to do whatever works for them, makes them able to cope, allows them to feel happier, whatever.

Some people operate better on regular odd days off, others need 14 straight days full relaxation.

Work/life balance is different things for different people, and many employees are seeking to flex that post-COVID. I'm all for it, tbh (and I say that as a business owner myself).

Why is taking leave during the probation period a red flag if it was approved by their manager? Since their probation is 3 months you’d expect them to take at least 1/4 of their leave allowance.

AIBU that they should learn to manage within their holiday allowance that they accepted by contract?

Yes yabu.

They're not asking for additional holiday allowance. They're telling you that they intend to take unpaid parental leave, which is their right.

I wouldn't tie yourself up in knots over it because it's pointless - your opinions are irrelevant and once they've been there a year you cannot decline their request - only delay it slightly.

Lots of people are unaware of the right to unpaid PL. If you have other employees with dc I'd brace yourself because there will probably be more taking advantage once they're aware.

I took 6 weeks off last year, the whole summer. Once word got around there must have been another dozen or so applications from my dept for anything from 1-12 weeks. All people who never even knew it existed until I talked about it.

This too. As a manager you should be clued up on this it's part of your job. If you have an HR department then engage them as well.

My workplace has a generous sick leave (6 months full pay) many people work 6 months then take 6 months off sick. People will get away with what they can get away with

Taking lots of leave would be a red flag to me, usually this is where you're trying to get up to speed etc, depending on other factors it would indicate to me that the person wasn't that interested in their job (and it sounds like they aren't if they're always wanting to go away).

Did you miss the bit where OP is the line manager?

I’ve never seen it either OP as most parents probably can’t afford to. But it is legal and something employers need to work with.

Yabu. It's about time more people and companies re-evaluated annual leave, anything that promotes a positive work-life balance is good.

I have a similar attitude to your colleague. I work to live I don't live to work and try to stroke a balance between earning enough for a decent standard of living and enjoying and living life to the full. Can't do that if we're always at work, we don't get these years back. It's not a race to the bottom.

But when I'm at work I work bloody hard and I'm good at what I do.

Parental leave is there to allow them to spend time with children.

Beyond that, when they apply for unpaid leave, you need to manage that if it doesn't suit the business.

I don’t really understand what you mean by saying ‘they intend to take unpaid leave’. In my company you can’t just take unpaid leave when you feel like it (not parental) - don’t you have to approve it as pp have said?

For some reason I did not know about this. Going to read up tomorrow. I'd like more time over the summer with DD.

I took 8 weeks one year - 4 weeks for each child.

I'm planning on taking more at some point - that's on top of my 35 days of annual leave, shock horror!!

I have never known a company not to offer the chance to buy holidays, I thought that was a pretty standard part of benefits packages. So if they are used to it, and have built their life and childcare, if they need it, around having 40 days then it will take them time to adjust

They are the ones that are paying for it by having lower wages as this leave is unpaid, so if they are entitled to it then they are not doing anything wrong

You as the manager though have it in your gift to decline the leave. So YABU to not be managing this to suit the needs of the business which is what you should be doing

In my previous job I had 28 days annual leave, 8/9 days bank holiday, an extra day at Xmas and also for many years flex time ( with rules) but flex was stopped in covid and never reinstated

I could take 12 days flex per year, if obviously I’d got the hours, which a generally had as my rota would often have me starting at 8.30 instead of 9am and finishing at 5:30 instead of 5pm, if a client ran over then it’d be 6pm

so I’d book a bank holiday week, Tuesday flex, 3 days annual leave and I’d got 9 days. I be savage with my annual leave and pretty much have a week a month

I worked well in return, was on the ball & it was a good life work balance. I actually enjoyed the work & challenges but probably due to the decent balance

God you would hate me. we were flat out during lockdowns aswell as short staffed. we weren't allowed to take holidays sometimes hence a good bit of annula leave was built up. am using up a good bit between this year so far. took 8 weeks off last year. so far this year took 3 days off Jan week off Feb and March 3 days easter and will be 3 days in May. some of them have been sporadic days here and there like your employee. there has been no issue taking them some were last minute too. made sure my work was done caught up when back. boss happy. hope to take altogether 8 weeks off this year and that will get my leave balance down a good bit. to me taking sporadic days off means I can get some things done at home help out bringing family to hopistal or babysitting nieces and nephews or recently enjoying the fab weather we have been having recently. I work hard at work but alos love my days off doing what I wnat to do.