To be pissed off with SIL?

[FanFareMax]

So DN (DH’s sister’s daughter) is 6. She’s obsessed with our DD, 10 months. When I was pregnant, SIL went on and on at DN about how I was carrying her cousin and how they’re going to be best friends once the baby is born, getting her to hug my bump constantly (which I wasn’t keen on but didn’t seem to be given a choice) just really trying to generate excitement in DN. I get why, but it was a lot at the time (or felt it, perhaps it was pregnancy hormones)

We live nearly 200 miles from SIL and her family so only see them every few months.

Since DD has been born, it’s been so intense with DN every time we see them. We went to visit them for a couple of days last weekend and I left feeling really cross at SIL and also DH.

It’s no exaggeration to say from the minute we arrived to the minute we left, we barely got a moments peace from DN. She was glued to my side and in my and my DD’s face constantly, pulling DD around, following me every single time I tried to put her down for a nap or to change or feed her. She kept saying to SIL ‘she’s like one of my dolls’ and SIL kept saying ‘yes she is like your dolls’ I really wanted to say, she’s not a fucking doll.

SIL kept asking could DN feed and change DD, I didn’t feel like I could say no as she asked right in front of DN, neither the feeding or the nappy changing went well (I think because DD was getting more and more grumpy and tired) DD was getting so fed up of being pulled around, she’s teething so hadn’t slept well the night before and was so overstimulated and grumpy that after a while she had the biggest meltdown she’s ever had and neither DH nor I could console her for nearly an hour. Noone could hear themselves think so I said I’d try putting her in the pram and take her for a walk to try and get her to sleep, que DN saying ‘I want to come and push the pram.’ I just wanted 5 minutes bloody peace, I looked at SIL and was about to say ‘I think it’s probably best I go on my own’ when SIL jumped in and said ‘of course you can, I’m sure FanFare will let you push the pram as well’

It carried on like that for the whole weekend, I left feeling exhausted as felt like I’d had two children the whole weekend with DN just constantly bloody THERE.

When we got home, DH said ‘DN was pretty intense this weekend wasn’t she, I could sense some tension at one point and could tell you were getting really pissed off’ I said ‘So why didn’t you say something then? It’s your bloody family!’ And he said ‘I wanted to but I knew it would piss SIL off, I didn’t think she’d take it very well if I said DN was being a bit much, you know what she can be like’ (backstory, SIL is incredibly precious and cannot take any form of criticism towards her or her family, she’s also the ‘princess’ of DH’s family and we are all genuinely expected to pander to her otherwise MIL and FIL get cross!)

I’m so cross, I feel like DH shoved me and DD under the bus so as not to annoy SIL. It’s okay for me to be annoyed though?

What’s prompted this thread is it’s MIL’s birthday next month and we are all going to a cottage for the weekend to celebrate so we have to stay under the same roof as DN for 2 days. On Monday we get sent a video from SIL, it’s of DN singing a countdown song to the number of days until she gets to see DD again. I got one yesterday and now again this morning. SIL said DN is going to do one every day for the next month until she sees DD again. I’m honestly really struggling with all this, it feels so bloody intense and suffocating and I can’t imagine having this much interest in someone else’s baby! SIL has zero self awareness that other people might not want DN in their face all the time and never calls her away. How on earth am I going to cope with it for 2 days under the same roof? I’m dreading it.

AIBU here? Is it actually all really ‘cute’ and I just need to accept it all? To me it just feels intense and obsessive.

Well that's true - the age gap between my cousins and i is a few years.....but we don't live close to each other.

But that aside, my children have that age gap with their cousins and they are still close.......and literally my children followed them around (and so i got some peace from them). I do think that the niece sounds full on though, and i would definitely manage it but saying something like i''ll wipe DD's bottom and put the nappy on and you can stick on the velcro'. Or 'i'll change her and then you can have a little cuddle whilst i go to the loo.' Or, 'i think that XXX needs a chill out now, so i'm going to go and sit over there and then when she wakes up, she'll be happy and ready to have another cuddle'. And i wouldn't have any hesitation in doing that in front of SIL as it's not unreasonable and if she thinks that it is, it's her issue and not mine!!

Also perhaps get firm routine for dd. And say she has a nap at x time and take her up while dh asks dn to watch cartoons or play a game

Sorry OP, have only read your posts so probably repeating others. I have a similarly tricky character in my family and have disengaged and avoid conflict now, it's just not worth it.

While you're there, big up DN (poor kid isn't going to have it easy in life, but it's not your job to parent her). "Oh DN, DD loves you so much! I think she just finds you too exciting to sleep though, so I'd best take her out for a sleep in the buggy and then you two can play when she wakes up".

Lots of talk to anyone who'll listen about how DD is getting overstimulated so easily these days and so you've had to change your routine to feed and change her in a quiet room by herself - this will get you time away, whether in your bedroom or out for a walk. In your shoes, I'd be saying she's started only napping in the pram and going out for lots of loooooong walks by myself

Get DH on side with all of this - make it crystal clear that if this doesn't work, you will be telling SIL to get DN to back off and he can live with the consequences.

You could consider an advance warning to SIL about DD needing more calm and that she might want to prepare DN for that, but tbh I think that would just create drama. Bright, firm, breezy, cheerful is the way to handle this.

The dynamic is tricky but I think you're letting your long term, legitimate resentment, of SIL colour your view here somewhat. The behaviour she is encouraging in DN is totally not okay. But it does not require a full sit down discussion. it requires all the suggestions made on this thread about firm but kind boundaries being drawn on an ongoing basis. Yes, SIL won't be happy and she might even try to overrule you, but you need to stick to it and calmly but firmly reiterate the boundary and, if necessary, remind her that you are looking out for your dd.

We had a somewhat similar situation. the interesting thing was that when DH and I decided to absolutely assert the boundary. SIL was NOT happy. But, we calmly repeated it and left the party as we'd agreed to do if certain behaviour continued. SIL hasn't learnt her lesson at all but interestingly, her DC has and a lot of the behaviour has stopped. It's a win from me.

"Just like you when you were a baby, dd sometimes needs some quiet time/just mummy etc, so I'm going to do this as just dd and I. You can help with xxxx later if you'd like, as dd loves it when you xxx"

Every time your dd needs time out. You're acknowledging that dn is a big girl and can think in big girl ways. If it doesn't work, then a firm "as I said, not this time" and let her mother deal with the fallout. Sil will make herself look like a dick if she kicks off.

Tell the niece to pester her mother for a sibling that she can play with.

She already has two siblings!!

Goodness me, that gastro came out of nowhere didn't it 😉

What happened here is that your DH had to weigh up upsetting his sister by saying something or upsetting his wife by saying nothing. This isn't ever a question of who they love more, or query their loyalties lie, it's whoever would be the most "difficult" once upset. Your husband knew his sister would give him more grief than you once upset so he took that path. And you proved him right because you have continued to be really passive about it.

The way to deal with people who trample all over you is not to take it. You don't have to be a dick about it but you have to teach peoe what you'll accept. Tell your DH that he can deal with HIS sister pushing herself and DN all over you and baby or that will be the last family event you attend. Tell him if he doesn't have your back you won't be spending time round them again.

For yourself you need to learn to tell your DN yourself "DD needs some space now, go and see if grandma needs a help in the garden", "no the baby isn't a doll, she is too young for you to play with", "DN I am DD's mummy and I decide who gets to push her buggy". You're a parent now and will have to get comfortable saying no more often in all sorts of situations!

I think the thing I try and remember with my kids when they’re very little is that they can’t advocate for themselves so it’s up to me and my husband to be their advocate. I generally hate speaking up and rocking the boat and upsetting things but I will do it for my small children because they cannot do it for themselves. So in this situation that’s what I would channel. It’s not about you or your DH or your SIL - it’s about a 10 month old child who cannot speak up for herself and needs you or your DH to speak up for her.

Ok, then YOUR head needs to fall off. I find British people who marry into families like this always end up just not speaking up or trying desperately not to rock the boat and its just not possible.

If you say something really gently to redirect DN, and SIL/MIL/FIL kick off you calmly say "I am DD's mother, I'm going to advocate for what she needs. If you're suggesting that you're expecting to tell me I'm not allowed to do that and a 6 year old gets to dictate what I do with my own baby then I cannot spend time with you, I'm sorry. I love you all but that just isn't reasonable at all. I'm going to leave now, bevause this isn't a situation I'm willing to get myself into"

Be super calm but don't waver. Be prepared to leave. If that means them kicking off and you going up to quietly pack up your things then so be it. I'd also pre warn your husband that anyone who raises their voice to you, speaks to you in an aggressive way or otherwise, you will be leaving immediately. I was in this exact situation once and we did leave. They did learn from that that I wouldn't take any of that shit and while we weren't beasties moving forward they were 1000% more respectful to me.

i think I’d send a message to SIL now about how overbearing this weekend was. Let them have their tantrums now, and if it blows over by the party, great. If not? You don’t go

Your DH 's family treat your SIL with kid gloves but that didn't mean you had to join in. If everyone justs panders to her it reinforces the idea that she's all important and must never be upset, and now you have a problem because you've all let her do as she liked. Now you have a DC your SIL wants to see you more, are you going to spend every meeting biting your tongue? If you and your DH don't address this it's going to get worse, your SIL will expect to see more and more of your baby, she'll be coming to stay even though you don't want her there because you'll be afraid to upset her.
I afraid your DH has lived with this weird family dynamic for far too long to suddenly stand up for himself so if this bothers you enough you're going to have to do a lot of work to get him onside

Maybe you should get DN all hyped up and do a reciprocal countdown on WhatsApp until you meet up and give her her “BIG SURPRISE!!!!” Then show up with a puppy in a box with a bow! 🦹‍♀️🦹‍♀️🦹‍♀️

And abandon the baby to be smothered by strangers? No way!

Set your own boundaries as a parent! Your child - you get to say when enough is enough - SiL parenting does not over rule yours. Meanwhile, I'd buy DN the prettiest most realistic baby doll, and select some of your outgrown newborn outfits to go with it... she'd have her own baby then to obsess over ... take a 'new' outfit each visit to help divert her. But, don't forget those boundaries.

I would feign imaginary illness and let hubby take baby. You get a nice break and he will actually have to grow a backbone and deal with his sister

I think you are over thinking this - it’s not a big deal. You don’t have to say No every time and the times you do, just redirect DN to “some other time” “maybe later” etc as other posters have said. A kind excuse now and then.

It doesn’t mean you have to say a straight “no you can’t” as this will obviously cause friction. There are ways to be diplomatic whilst getting the outcome you want.

It seems you are making this an issue, when it really doesn’t need to be.

I think your dh is going to say anything to make you happy now. And will make his sis happy then.

Actually ask him to tell you what he'll say if sil/n says x or y.

I'd actually prefer that he had a discussion now with them about it. Because basically there's no way anyones behaviour will have changed in the next month or two. It'll play out exactly the same.

I'd need him to say. Dd is not a doll, myself and (you) will be the only ones feeding, bathing and changing. If dd isn't happy and we're taking her for a walk to calm down, it'll just be us. Dn needs to be able to told to give her some space if she's in her pram, high chairs or on our knee (means you can pick her up to give her some time)

If dh can't/won't do this then sadly one of you two will be ill next holiday

I wouldn’t advocate leaving the baby with SIL and DN. SIL obviously thinks it’s fine for DN to feed and nappy change and may not give adequate supervision which could be a fall or choking risk.

Some people very soon forget how protective and “precious” they were with their own babies once they have a rumbustious toddler or bossy older children. A friend had this with her sister always bringing her toddler daughter when she visited after friend had her newborn. When toddler niece had been born we’d all had to wash hands, remove belts and sit down to hold her, - and fine, but two years later she let the same toddler be unintentionally rough around her sister’s new baby whilst looking on with a benevolent smile. Hand washing, germs - all forgotten!

It must be irritating and frustrating if it's as intense as you describe but it's not going to change unless you cut it down.
Who gives a shit if it upsets your in-laws? Maybe they all need someone to say no to them!
If you feel that you must go then hand baby over to DH as soon as you get there and let him deal with it.
Or maybe stay somewhere else?
It's not going to change unless you/DH change it 🤷🏻‍♀️

I agree. You don't want to upset your niece, fair enough she's 6. But in the mean time it's your daughter who's suffering from being over stimulated with people she doesn't know very well. Your daughters your priority, not your niece or sister in law. I would be kind, ask her to help with the occasional thing so she's included, just not with everything.

Omg. You are definitely not being unreasonable. That would drive me insane. Not sure what you do without upsetting precious sister but something needs saying.

I suspect the in laws will be glad OP's not there and her DH will weaken and let them walk all over him. 🌹

OP this isn't suddenly going to change when DD gets a few months older. The niece has been brought up to think that what she wants she gets, to borrow a line from Prince Harry. So you might as well have the fallout now as later.

Long before the birthday get together tell your DH what you will and won't stand for. Tell him that up to now you've joined in the pussyfooting around SIL to keep the peace, but go hard on the fact that now you are standing up for your daughter and while you've been passive before, if she breaks any boundaries this time he will see a side of you he never knew existed. That your response will make SIL look like an amateur in the heads falling off stakes. So ask him who would he rather see upset. You or her?

He won't find it easy because he's been conditioned to let his sister get her own way every time, both from her own reactions and the way she is always supported by her (and his) parents. But stick to your guns. Your DD only has you to look out for her, as everyone else is too busy looking out for SIL.