To be pissed off with SIL?

[FanFareMax]

So DN (DH’s sister’s daughter) is 6. She’s obsessed with our DD, 10 months. When I was pregnant, SIL went on and on at DN about how I was carrying her cousin and how they’re going to be best friends once the baby is born, getting her to hug my bump constantly (which I wasn’t keen on but didn’t seem to be given a choice) just really trying to generate excitement in DN. I get why, but it was a lot at the time (or felt it, perhaps it was pregnancy hormones)

We live nearly 200 miles from SIL and her family so only see them every few months.

Since DD has been born, it’s been so intense with DN every time we see them. We went to visit them for a couple of days last weekend and I left feeling really cross at SIL and also DH.

It’s no exaggeration to say from the minute we arrived to the minute we left, we barely got a moments peace from DN. She was glued to my side and in my and my DD’s face constantly, pulling DD around, following me every single time I tried to put her down for a nap or to change or feed her. She kept saying to SIL ‘she’s like one of my dolls’ and SIL kept saying ‘yes she is like your dolls’ I really wanted to say, she’s not a fucking doll.

SIL kept asking could DN feed and change DD, I didn’t feel like I could say no as she asked right in front of DN, neither the feeding or the nappy changing went well (I think because DD was getting more and more grumpy and tired) DD was getting so fed up of being pulled around, she’s teething so hadn’t slept well the night before and was so overstimulated and grumpy that after a while she had the biggest meltdown she’s ever had and neither DH nor I could console her for nearly an hour. Noone could hear themselves think so I said I’d try putting her in the pram and take her for a walk to try and get her to sleep, que DN saying ‘I want to come and push the pram.’ I just wanted 5 minutes bloody peace, I looked at SIL and was about to say ‘I think it’s probably best I go on my own’ when SIL jumped in and said ‘of course you can, I’m sure FanFare will let you push the pram as well’

It carried on like that for the whole weekend, I left feeling exhausted as felt like I’d had two children the whole weekend with DN just constantly bloody THERE.

When we got home, DH said ‘DN was pretty intense this weekend wasn’t she, I could sense some tension at one point and could tell you were getting really pissed off’ I said ‘So why didn’t you say something then? It’s your bloody family!’ And he said ‘I wanted to but I knew it would piss SIL off, I didn’t think she’d take it very well if I said DN was being a bit much, you know what she can be like’ (backstory, SIL is incredibly precious and cannot take any form of criticism towards her or her family, she’s also the ‘princess’ of DH’s family and we are all genuinely expected to pander to her otherwise MIL and FIL get cross!)

I’m so cross, I feel like DH shoved me and DD under the bus so as not to annoy SIL. It’s okay for me to be annoyed though?

What’s prompted this thread is it’s MIL’s birthday next month and we are all going to a cottage for the weekend to celebrate so we have to stay under the same roof as DN for 2 days. On Monday we get sent a video from SIL, it’s of DN singing a countdown song to the number of days until she gets to see DD again. I got one yesterday and now again this morning. SIL said DN is going to do one every day for the next month until she sees DD again. I’m honestly really struggling with all this, it feels so bloody intense and suffocating and I can’t imagine having this much interest in someone else’s baby! SIL has zero self awareness that other people might not want DN in their face all the time and never calls her away. How on earth am I going to cope with it for 2 days under the same roof? I’m dreading it.

AIBU here? Is it actually all really ‘cute’ and I just need to accept it all? To me it just feels intense and obsessive.

OP I understand, I have a 7mo baby girl and she has half-siblings and cousins on her dad's side who are all obsessed with her. It's lovely that they love her so much but it does mean she tends to not get a minute's peace and no good sleep whenever we're together.

I mainly put up with the pestering BUT I do take myself off to a bedroom to try and let her get some sleep and I don't let children push the pram because it puts me on edge. I have had to be direct about this though and just say no to the pushing requests. I literally just say "no, I'll push her".

Unfortunately you do just need to be more direct- when niece asks to come for a walk and SIL says yes, you've got to say "actually I'm going to take her alone this time DN, she's tired and if you're there she'll be too excited and want to play when she really needs to go to sleep" etc. It doesn't need to be mean or harsh, but you've got to tell them no.

I felt awkward too at first but then I realised my baby was the one suffering and I needed to speak up to help her.

Dear god there's a girl like this at a babygroup I go to. It is lovely she's so obsessed with babies but I just want her out of my face !

I now tell her nicely to stop or back off "x needs some space now shes a bit overwhelmed" "actually x is getting a bit over excited so can you play with your toys for a little while". "X needs some quiet time now she can play with you later". If you get really desperate say "look at x, can you see he is trying to watch / see what's happening / play / eat / cuddle so give him some space please "

Yeah, don’t broach it beforehand, just take control
I’m taking her upstairs now
Would you like to help me set up her lunch/ sort out clothes/ set up play gym?
She’s shattered
Baby needs a nap
I’m going to do this alone as she needs quiet now
You can help me put her coat on
Can you hold the pram while I fix this?

It's the SIL she's annoyed with for allowing this, not the DN. If my 3 year old is being irritating to others, I put a stop to it. I don't just freely let him annoy the crap out of other people because he is a young child.

I would remove my dc from the situation by taking them out for a few hours to give my SIL and her 10 month old baby some peace if it was me.

Oh missed the beginning of my message! I was saying, I recognise this situation, my SIL is a nightmare and DH's family (and me too) spent years pussyfooting around her or she explodes.

When I was pregnant with my first she wanted her kids, young primary age at the time, to come and stay with us (without them, just the kids) for about a week immediately after my due date, insisting they'd be no extra work etc. I put my foot down and it caused a colossal fallout, but it was SO worth it - I've just had my second and she didn't even hint that she was thinking the same way. What helped was DH was really supportive - after I caused the initial argument by saying no, he then took over to maintain it (again, has done nothing to help their family relations, but has made me feel so supported), so I'd be really clear with your DH that he'll probably need to feel uncomfortable and make some waves, as otherwise you're likely in for years of this nonsense.

DH needs to handle SIL. He needs to take care of you and DD and in this case it means dealing with his family.
DN being 6 though will require gentle prompts probably directly from you. “It’s wonderful how much you adore DD. She’s tired now though and needs space to sleep well so she can have more energy to play later.” Go. If needed, assign DN to someone. “SIL, I understand you have a special job for DN until I get back.” Princess is raising a princess it seems. Maybe it will bite her ass one day.

Having been close to something similar, I can tell you this will escalate until you put your foot down. Fear of repercussions cannot be allowed to control sensible decisions. Be firm and kind but say no. Hold the line firmly in the face of family tantrums and tbh I'd do it before this planned holiday, so that if they all turn on you you'll be more than justified in staying at home.

They need to accept that your baby is not there as a plaything to entertain someone else's child. Being a mum means you have to be the adult in these uncomfortable situations, which isn't always easy, I know. You have good "mum" instincts, don't be afraid to listen to them.

It would be such a shame if your dd had a sickness bug that weekend so you couldn't make the cottage. 48hrs at home is the rule... 😜

Lots of good advice here already, the problem isn't your DN however if you don't put boundaries in place now SIL will be passing down her princess throne to her and the next generation ( your DD ) will have to suffer.

Maybe put the ball in their court and ask some very direct questions

"Are you actually saying I should put DN's needs above my baby's?"

"Sometimes we have to say no to children don't we?"

"Are you suggesting DN continues to do Xxx, which is obviously upsetting baby?"

"Baby has to have quiet time now - agreed?"

"Are you saying you get to decide for my baby, not me?"

Then silence until they reply
Better still get your DH to do this too!

You need to stop this now before it gets worse!

I'm sorry but for the sake of my sanity, I'd just not go. Let your DH go by himself to his mother's birthday celebrations but as for me and the baby - nope, not happening.

I'm really not victim blaming here but the time to nip this in the bud was when your niece was hugging your pregnant belly and invading your space then.

If you don't feel like you can stay home, why don't you get your niece to mirror what you're doing with one of her dolls? If it's time to change your baby, she changes one of her dolls. If you're going for a walk, she brings one of her dolls in a buggy/pram and pushes that. She then has to look after her own 'baby' and you get to look after yours. But it's all the time. Oh and I'd actually stop the comparison when your niece says "She's like one of my dolls" with "Well, actually she is not like a doll because she is a person, a little person but she's a person so has feelings and needs space like a person does."

Does your 6yr old niece like reading? Like colouring in? Like puzzles? Bring some with you as a 'special treat' for her to occupy her while you get to do stuff yourselves. Keep giving her jobs to do around the place and bringing stuff from A to B so that you tire her out.

It sounds very unhealthy dynamics….
Can you book somewhere nearby instead of staying in the same cottage? You have a young baby and could say that last time was a bit of a nightmare as niece doesn’t seem to understand babies need down time. If they go into one so be it. Then you don’t need to go. Result!

Moving forwards, I would start putting some boundaries in place. SiL may be the golden child but you have your family to consider now. Go for a day visit and never stay overnight until your daughter is around 5. If challenged be honest…you find it very stressful and DN doesn’t understand your baby isn’t a doll… and it makes baby upset and you stressed.

I would definitely not bother opening the videos from DN…who allows their child to do that? I would really keep your distance and not make plans to visit so often.

I want to paint you a picture if you don’t stand up for your daughter (firmly but kindly) to your neice.

Your niece wants to change her and push around her pram (like a doll). You let her to keep the peace.

Then, your niece wants to feed her and drag her around as a toddler. And when your toddler looks to you - as they do - with a scared/ unsure look, you let her know with your actions that she has to do what your niece says. To keep the peace.

When she’s older, you’re on holiday together. Your daughter is tired and wants to go back to the apartment at the end of the day. Your niece wants to go to the play park. You tell your daughter that she isn’t going for a rest, she’s going to the play park - to keep the peace.

Where’s the line?

You’re just letting everybody (including your daughter) know that your daughter’s needs are secondary and that she comes second to the wants of your niece.

I think SiL is using your DD aa a substitute sibling . You won't really see that much of them will you and your own DD will be able to assert her own choices soon enough so then DN will quickly lose interest I'm sure ! Just use it to your advantage till then suggesting SiL and DH can take some lovely long walks with them both . That may well dry up the enthusiasm.

I don't understand people like you. You are just going to have to upset someone. You sound upset, your baby is not happy, why put up with it? Either that or carry on being a door mat and teach your child to be the same.

This would drive me nuts. Absolutely bat shit crazy. I find it hard enough when friends' toddlers want to be all over my 2 month old baby - and I have a toddler so I get it.

You're going to just have to take the hit with SIL / PIL or be annoyed and resentful forever. Choose which is the lesser evil to you.

Address your niece directly but kindly.

'Can I come and push the baby?'

'Ahh thanks DN that's so kind but I'm going to take her out myself this time as she is getting very grumpy. Maybe when she wakes up later you could read her a story?'

DN goes to do nappy change- 'ahh thanks DN, I'm going to change her nappy myself this time. Could you go and find her blanket/new nappy/ dummy etc in my changing bag'.

You'll just need to act as if both girls are yours. All parents who have an older child and a younger one have to manage the excitement. It's unfortunate her mum isn't dealing with it, but to be fair to her she isn't a mind reader.

You should just take control of the situation and if your SIL doesn't like it, tough.

At the very first opportunity hand dd over to sil and you and dh go for a walk or to the pub! Sil can deal with 2 dc..
Bet she won't let it happen again.

Could you say no in the very kindest way possible.

You can be assertive and very caring at the same time

'Thank you so much DN, you are such a good helper. I'm going to do this feed, but maybe later when she is settled you could sit and have a cuddle with her? I think she'd love that from her big cousin'.

That way surely her mum can't be pissed off - and if she is she is so totally unreasonable you can ignore it with a clear conscience

I semi see it from the other way around. Both sides. I was firstly the younger cousin and my elder cousins were jealous when I was born. I absolutely idolised them growing up and probably still do (similar age gap). They had no interest in me, only jealousy, and had they been encouraged to be more involved it would have made things smoother I think.

I also now have a 7 year old and a newborn niece and luckily, my SIL involved her where appropriate. It does, obviously, take a village. The 7 year old has had grandparent attention forever though and has, if I'm honest, struggled to understand why GP are less interested in her now. It's been a learning curve.

That said, you need to establish boundaries. I'd be more inclined to a "not now but you could help with her bath later" rather than a flat no.

I've sort of been in the same position, but fortunately for me my dh doesn't take prisoners, so didn't let it run. We had sil with her dc tantruming outside of the maternity unit, because it was so unfair that non sibling children couldn't come in!
I often think on these threads that the woman needs to stand up for herself, her dc and her boundaries herself, rather than relying on her dh. The man often won't / can't stand up to his own family because he has been conditioned to accept the status quo. In my family its the women who run the show.
Op, you are just going to have to tell sil that it's too much for you. Your baby isn't a toy or a learning opportunity for her dd. If you want to, turn up to the break with a Baby Annabel with a few of your baby's grown out of clothes. Tell her it's a gift from her cousin. This will be your sweetener when you tell dn no, you need to look after your own baby.

Don't know if this has been suggested but what about getting niece a doll that she can use herself whilst you're there? So she's looking after her own doll instead of being near the baby?

DD1 is 7 and dd2 is 5 week old. Dd1 a bit obsessed with seeing DD be changed, wants to see her poo and also see her bum. She's so weird 😂Dd2 lives in hospital neonatal atm due to being 11 weeks early and we visit everyday. Dd1 brings her doll that moves and talks and she looks after that whilst I tend to dd2.

On another note my MIL and DM are constantly treating dd2 like she's a doll. Saying they can't wait to dress her in frilly dresses and show her off. I told them she's not a doll I've birthed for them to parade around. She's my baby. Don't be afraid to put your foot down with niece and say no not today. The videos would do my head in too. It sounds like your SIL is using your baby to entertain her DD childcare wise.

Brilliant post! Remember, DN is only 6. In a way her mum has found a perfect strategy to ensure DN isn’t jealous of the new baby in the family. I can see it would be suffocating but it would be worse if she hated/resented the baby. Of course nappy changing/feeding isn’t going to go well for a 6 year old, but if you use it to your advantage as PP says you could run that kid ragged fetching and carrying for you and the baby. By the end of the weekend your little helper will be exhausted. 🤣 😝

Can you start to teach DN about bodily autonomy through your dd. It sounds as if with her mother she will probably benefit from some understanding of boundaries both for herself and in friendships.

'Oh I can see that dd is a bit unhappy there. It is really important for babies and children to be able to say no when they don't like what someone else is doing to you. I expect there are some people in your class that you wouldn't want to come up and hug you and some times when you don't want to be hugged by anyone. Imagine if someone tried to hug you when you were going to the toilet.' No SIL it is not different when it is family. It is still important that we listen to what others are telling us.