Is she English or Portuguese? Please help me settle a debate

[Takeawaypizzatonightcbacooking]

I live in Portugal, I’m English, as is Dh, but Dd was born here.
My dad says Dd is Portuguese as she was born here, I say English because we’re both English…who is right? How does it work if you’re born in a different country to your parents etc?

It's both. As is Cymraeg

She is a citizen of both Britain and Portugal and both countries will allow her to hold two passports, one British and one EU.

That could potentially be a lifestyle and career-boosting opportunity so you should think about it ( just watch out for postential complications like dual tax liability, and military service obligations)

She's both. She's completely English and completely Portuguese.

Then she has dual citizenship. She's likely to refer to herself as Portuguese if that's where she'll grow up. I'm wondering what you find confusing, could you explain @Takeawaypizzatonightcbacooking ?

I always find this so interesting! Personally I was born in an eu country and don't actually have British citizenship but grew up here and have only lived here, so although not actually British I very much feel as if I am. My DD was born in the UK (my DP is British) and therefore is technically a dual citizen but I would expect that she will always identify as British.

More likely that person was just hiding the exact country for anonymity? It's a bit of a giveaway if someone is trying to guess who they are.

Eg I was born in Europe but I'm not a citizen of the country I was born in. I'm not European, I'm British.

Entirely unremarkable set of phrases.

It depends on whether you meet the criteria and registered her birth there. It is important you find out. Her nationality and citizenship may affect her depending on which country she is in

https://iasservices.org.uk/pt/portuguese-citizenship-by-birth/

Also meant to add this link as she may be entitled to both citizenship in which case she could be considered mixed heritage.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent

I think it depends on how involved she is with the culture and how long she spends there (or given how small she is, what happens to her later).

If she's only there temporarily and lives in an expat bubble going to a British international school, only socialising with other expats and barely learning the language then I'd say she's English.

If you're staying for her whole childhood and she's living a typical Portuguese life, speaking the language and her friends and school are Portuguese then she's Portuguese of English descent (even if not legally so).

Absolutely - I just didn't want to complicate things :) EU citizen myself with British born children so I'm well versed in the different rules that apply depending on whether someone was born before 1983, between 1983 and July 2006 or since then. It's not straightforward as is does depend on whether the mother or the father was the qualifying parent - and before 2006, whether the parents were married.

Portugal seem to have relaxed their rules in November 2020 though - as I read it, one parent only needs to have been living there legally for 1 year before the birth for the child to be automatically Portuguese. Before that it was 2 years - but I haven't checked since when that was the case.
I did read that the birth had to have been registered with Portuguese authorities, and also the parents' marriage if the father is the only qualifying parent. But I haven't delved deeper, hence why I said in a previous comment that the OP may want to get advice from a Portuguese immigration lawyer to secure the daughter's Portuguese citizenship.

In my experience, children with dual nationalities like your daughter tend to feel more closely associated with their parents' nationality during childhood, but the more time they spend in their country of birth the more connected they feel to that country - especially if they've never lived in their parents' country.

So, if you stay in Portugal your daughter will likely feel more and more Portuguese over time. Try not to make her choose - she can have many more opportunities with 2 passports, 2 languages and a good understanding of different cultures.

I know a lot of people born in the UK to immigrant parents, and I'm pretty sure they all identify with their parents' countries (Indian/Chinese/Dutch) but will use "British" on forms and legal documents. If living in Portugal, it might serve your daughter better to use Portuguese on documents rather than British, but she can still identify as British in life if she feels particularly connected to England.

A child born from two British children (or two parents of the same heritage) would never be considered "of mixed heritage", or "half British, half Portuguese" as someone else suggested. Heritage is down to ethnic origin and is totally different from identity. The OP's daughter will almost certainly have mixed identities, but her heritage is 100% British (which in itself almost certainly means a huge mix of genetic origins).

Equally, someone from a different ethnicity who has naturalised as British, or for that matter, adopted children from a different ethnicity should put that ethnicity down on forms that ask for this. These forms exist in order to track things like genetic diseases in certain populations, vulnerability to infections such as Covid, or to various cancers or other illnesses. The answers on those forms do NOT reflect identity. Of course a British born and bred person with two Pakistani parents (for example) is fully British - but it would still be wrong to tick "white, British". That's why just "British" isn't an option on those forms - they want to know the heritage / ethnicity.

Meant to add: what she will probably (hopefully) be is a dual national, with all the legal advantages that brings.

@Takeawaypizzatonightcbacooking your dd is English because both her parents, grandparents and so on are all English. However, if she has Portuguese citizenship then she’s a Portuguese citizen but English ethnicity/heritage. My mum was born in England and has always lived here. She therefore has English/British citizenship, but she isn’t ethnically English because her parents and their parents etc are all from a different continent.

They would have Irish citizenship if the parents are from the uk but if they were another nationality they wouldn't

Legally, the rules are pretty clearly set out wherever you are, and your daughter may be a dual national - an EU nationality is a good thing to have, if she can get one.

Identity-wise? I guess it depends on how she feels. My kids were born here, go to a local French-speaking school, and have lived here all their lives. They don't feel Belgian or identify as Belgian, and don't yet qualify for Belgian citizenship. When they do, we'll claim it for them. But I don't think that will change the fact that they feel British. The UK is where all their family other than us live, it's where everyone speaks their home language, and where the TV programmes they like are made and set. (I think Belgians generally see them as British too, but Brussels is full of immigrants from somewhere or other, so no one particularly cares.)

I'd say she was "English but born in Portugal" while she's young. If she grows up in Portugal then I'd likely switch to Portuguese with English parents".

My dc are in this situation (different country).

They consider themselves English, but with other nationalities (dh and I both hold other nationalities which they are technically entitled to too).

Although they have the nationality and have lived there all their lives, they certainly do not consider themselves of the country they were born in.

Another thing I think is important is how welcomed children are into their country of birth.

Despite having immigrant parents no one ever questioned my British identity, because I'm white. So I feel British now as an adult. But I have friends born and raised here with visibly different heritage who have many times been made to feel foreign or "other", so they perhaps hold onto the identity of their parents homeland more closely.

Equally, Brits born and raised in the Gulf may feel a bit more international than kids in the UK, but they would likely feel and certainly be seen as nothing but British

Well if she was born there and has lived there all her life then she is Portuguese (In my opinion)

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

It wasn’t a huge discussion with my father/family, it just came up today when he said Dd was Portuguese and I questioned it, as to me, she’s English/British

Same here. When I went to register my DC I was told a person is Spanish 'por sangre' so that was that, he is British and has a British passport. He is entitled to a Spanish one now though.

Slightly different situation here, I am Scottish, dh is portuguese and ds who was born here is portuguese. He is entitled to a British passport too, we just haven't got around to doing it.

I think your dc is entitled to portuguese citizenship as long as you and your dh have both lived as residents here for 2 years prior to the birth (could be 5 I'm not sure) your dc should be able to have dual nationality.
However, in my head I'd think of your dc as English since both her parents are English. Weirdly I only think of my ds as portuguese because its the only language he will talk

Well, she’s English.

DH was born in England to two Irish parents and used to say he was English to tease a particularly patriotic aunt. Her response was, if a cat has kittens in a fish shop, it doesn’t make them fish.

Obviously, if you then grow up in a certain country and hold citizenship of that country, you will consider yourself that nationality, even if your heritage is different.

My DC were born in England to an Irish Dad and a [my (third) nationality] Mum. We then moved to my home country. My DC can in no way claim to be English (even though they have British passports)!

They’re half Irish / half my nationality.