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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is she English or Portuguese? Please help me settle a debate

213 replies

Takeawaypizzatonightcbacooking · 29/04/2023 17:31

I live in Portugal, I’m English, as is Dh, but Dd was born here.
My dad says Dd is Portuguese as she was born here, I say English because we’re both English…who is right? How does it work if you’re born in a different country to your parents etc?

OP posts:
Lonelysingle · 29/04/2023 18:32

First generation Portuguese

Deadpalm · 29/04/2023 18:33

@Takeawaypizzatonightcbacooking are you asking from legal pount of view (looks like you now where you stand there) or from identity point of view?

mathanxiety · 29/04/2023 18:33

Is this something important to your dad, and if so, why?

Who brought up the topic of your child's nationality?

It seems to me to be a weird thing to be debating. The child is a family member regardless of legal nationality.

Deadpalm · 29/04/2023 18:35

mathanxiety · 29/04/2023 18:33

Is this something important to your dad, and if so, why?

Who brought up the topic of your child's nationality?

It seems to me to be a weird thing to be debating. The child is a family member regardless of legal nationality.

It's absolutely normal to discuss things like these in immigrant families.
We talked about what our child would be if we had one.

MollyRover · 29/04/2023 18:35

If she's entitled to Portuguese citizenship but you haven't pursued it then she's British.

DaanSaaf · 29/04/2023 18:37

pfftt · 29/04/2023 18:30

Where do you live now? Where is your permanent home ?

England

pfftt · 29/04/2023 18:37

ArcticSkewer · 29/04/2023 18:30

How do you feel about Rishi Sunak, op? Is he 'really' British? After all, neither of his parents were born in Britain. Is he maybe half British, or a bit British, or British-ish. I guess it is the same for your own children, but Portugese-ish.

Sunak's parents were both British when they had him. So he was British from birth

Conkersinautumn · 29/04/2023 18:38

Surely not first generation if her father is Portuguese? So Portuguese with an English mother?

Frenchfancy · 29/04/2023 18:38

She's both.

As others have said how she feels will likely depend on where she grows up.

My DD3 is in the same position. She feels French and gets upset if people call her English.

Conkersinautumn · 29/04/2023 18:39

Sorry just realised DH is also from the UK. So yes. Portuguese first gen.

HereForTheFreeLunch · 29/04/2023 18:40

Aside from the legal aspect... Are you raising her English? Will/is she going to a Portuguese school?
Or English speaking international school eating baked beans?
Does she/will she speak Portuguese?

pfftt · 29/04/2023 18:40

Takeawaypizzatonightcbacooking · 29/04/2023 17:44

She’s entitled to Portuguese citizenship as well as English, it’s quite confusing

It's not confusing at all. If she is entitled to both then she is a dual national. She is both British and Portuguese. If she grows up in Portugal she will likely feel Portuguese just as millions of people born in the UK to parents who were themselves from somewhere else, feel British.

CurlewKate · 29/04/2023 18:40

In the midst of the discussion, I hope you're working on dual nationality for her!

Whichwhatnow · 29/04/2023 18:41

My (now adult) nephew was born in Portugal, has dual nationality and identifies as both. Culturally he is in some ways very Portuguese and in others very British (and obviously speaks both languages fluently - he just got his Masters in Portugal!). He definitely looks more British than Portuguese!

Why do you ask?

supaloops · 29/04/2023 18:42

Her ethnicity is English as you and your partner as English. Her nationality could be Portugese, and possibly British too.

DojaPhat · 29/04/2023 18:43

Eddie Izzard was born in a place now known as Yemen. I went to uni with a handful of posh landed gentry English rose types whose entire personalities revolved around their various birthplaces around the globe. I worry about people sometimes.

mathanxiety · 29/04/2023 18:43

Can I add to the statements that have been made here wrt british citizenship by descent?

The British parents might like to register the birth of the baby with the British embassy. They will need the official Portuguese birth cert to hand.

This is just to be on the safe side. You don't want to be stuck in limbo if current regs change.

mathanxiety · 29/04/2023 18:45

Deadpalm · 29/04/2023 18:35

It's absolutely normal to discuss things like these in immigrant families.
We talked about what our child would be if we had one.

I'm an immigrant to the US myself and not once was this topic discussed when my DCs were born here.

They've all applied for Irish passports (based on my legal nationality) in their late teens/ twenties.

MRex · 29/04/2023 18:47

pfftt · 29/04/2023 18:40

It's not confusing at all. If she is entitled to both then she is a dual national. She is both British and Portuguese. If she grows up in Portugal she will likely feel Portuguese just as millions of people born in the UK to parents who were themselves from somewhere else, feel British.

Reminds me of a friend, who describes herself as British Indian until she was 14 and went to India. Then she decided to just call herself British. She loved and loves India, she's fond of her heritage, but having now been there myself I can agree she's definitely British to a far greater extent than she is Indian!

Mumoftwoinprimary · 29/04/2023 18:47

If she has the right to both citizenships then it will be up to her.

Flora Duffy represents Bermuda at Triathlon whilst Greg Rusedski decided to be British.

It is a fascinating thing - we have it on a smaller scale as Dh is Welsh and I am English (although we both identify as British). One of our kids is showing serious talent at a sport and the “would it be better to be Welsh or English for the Commonwealth games” question has crossed our mind.

Fandabedodgy · 29/04/2023 18:49

She is a Portuguese national with English heritage

Deadpalm · 29/04/2023 18:49

mathanxiety · 29/04/2023 18:45

I'm an immigrant to the US myself and not once was this topic discussed when my DCs were born here.

They've all applied for Irish passports (based on my legal nationality) in their late teens/ twenties.

It's very common discussion in my circles because many of us are 1 country and ethnicity, 2 country and ethnicity and live in 3rd. So it's absolutely fine to talk about
A-what nationalities and how will they balance all the different sides and languages or if it's just going to be country of residence

kitsuneghost · 29/04/2023 18:50

Portuguese.
Half Portuguese half English but commonly Portuguese.

Whalesong · 29/04/2023 18:52

secular39 · 29/04/2023 18:01

@Whalesong

I meant in terms of her identity. I was not thinking legally. If she is going to reside in Portugal throughout her childhood, then she is technically Portuguese but her heritage is British/English due to her parents.

But the question in the OP was about "how it works" which I take to mean legally. Nobody else can judge the identity side as it depends on so many things - upbringing, ties with the home country, family (including grandparents) etc etc.
From my own experience I can say that our children identify much more with each of their countries of origin than with the one they were born and have been brought up in (UK). They feel at home here, of course, but would never describe themselves as British, despite being British from birth.

SpringBunnies · 29/04/2023 18:57

Depends on how she identifies. I would say Portuguese with English parents but ultimately it’s up to her.