Who is being unreasonable here? Argument in swimming pool

[10LittleMonsters]

Me and DH took kids swimming. DS4 is on waiting list for ASD diagnosis.

All fine. But at one point DH forced DS4 to get in pool which caused a lot of tears. Had fun though mainly

DS4 put the pound coin for the locker in his mouth in changing room.

DH tells him sternly to take it out. He does. He drops on the floor. DH tells him even more sternly to pick it up. DS4 does but it back in his mouth. DH very stern again. DS4 starts crying, throwing all the clothes everywhere; meltdown begins. Hitting us.

I calm him down. Get him dressed. Hes back to being quiet and is picking up his clothes. Says sorry.

At one point I say

"DS4 I know you were angry as daddy told you not to eat the coin, but we can't throw things or hit people"

DH interrupts obviously pissed off

"He can't bloody put a coin in his mouth. Its ridiculous"

I said

"OK OK, let's not get it all going again"

DH now mad at me. Says I undermined him in front of DS4 and in public. Says he is allowed to reiterate things.

I said DS4 was doing as he was told and he wasn't doing anything wrong in that moment and he had put the coin back ages ago.

Was I unreasonable in saying that? DS4 has very strong reactions to negative stuff and while I know we still need boundaries, we were almost all sorted and DS4 was being good so just wanted to get out the changing room

@10LittleMonsters I do get this, having done the same stuff. The thing is, you're not causing more fights. The fights are happening because you're adapting your behaviour to your child's needs, and your husband isn't. So the only way these battles between the two of you are going to stop is if your husband genuinely thinks about what he could be doing differently, and then implements it. You're already doing things differently, but you are trying to do it for both of you, which is never going to work.

My guess is that your husband is now sulking and indignant because he knows he is inadequate when it comes to the challenges of dealing appropriately with an autistic child. He will also probably feel threatened by the fact that you are clearly doing a decent job.

If you get nothing else out of this thread, then do remember one thing: the essential problem here is not you or your child, but your husband.

Your DH is being a twat and I would support the PP’s recommendation that you post in SEN rather than AIBU.

When my son (ASD with PDA) was 4, anything and everything went in his mouth when he was anxious. He’s now 7 and is much better at using appropriate items, but I would never have let him hold coins at that age. Sensory seeking behaviour is automatic, until he learns to recognise it and use the appropriate item (which should always be available), you can tell him how dangerous it is until you are blue in the face. He could even 100% understand how dangerous it is, but it won’t change anything because he’s only 4, struggling and not in control of his sensory seeking yet.

Your DH needs to understand that meltdowns, sensory seeking and avoidant behaviour are not under DS’s control and should calmly help him to recognise them for what they are and redirect to better ways to deal with the instincts. Shouting just adds to sensory overload and should be avoided.

Does your DH agree with the possible autism diagnosis? Is he fully on board with it? Or does he think DS will "grow out of it", "just needs more boundaries " etc?

How does he view autistic people in general?

Not being on board with it, could explain (not excuse) his anger, refusal to engage and do any work related to it and rejecting advice from professionals.

Thank you @IsleofDen he chews everything. His favourite thing is to hide up my jumper and chew it from the inside. He licks the bed frame, door knobs. I bought him chewable toys and necklaces etc but he just ignores them. He should never have been given a coin. DH wants him to learn responsibility. When I bought the chewing toys to help him when's he anxious DH said I was encouraging chewing rather than stopping it. He said I'm always accommodating rather than preventing.

Sometimes I do let things slide. I just watched him scrunch up a load of kitchen roll and I know DH thinks I'm passive but I do admit I struggle with the relentless nature of it.

Anyway thank you.

I find it so hard to explain to DH and to many people on here clearly that I'm not saying chewing on a coin is OK but that anger doesn't help.

He will listen to an explanation and he does have a good memory and likes to repeat to me. So he will tell me that coins are dirty again and again after today but that won't stop him doing it again in the moment.

I think there

@10LittleMonsters My son did the same with my jumpers 😣I don’t think you are wrong to pick your battles, the kitchen roll is safe, clean and helping him. Why take that away?

I once heard a reception teacher say to a TA “I think we need to remember that most of these children haven’t even been on the planet for 5 years. Stop expecting so much from them!” I think about that a lot when I’m on mums net.

Plus:

I think there is a time and a place to validate your son's feelings but a coin in the mouth is not one of them. Sometimes as a parent there are situations you can't stop to validate

I posted earlier to say let him hold his arm bands so he can chew them, I meant the rubber disc ones. When he’s in a busy, hot, noisy changing room he may well need to chew. Or maybe let him hold a towel to chew. Or you can get rubber dive toys, we have some seals which are a cylinder shape.

It must be so hard to have to think of all these things.
I would work out exactly what your swimming routine is and embed it. I have a carrier per person which dry clothes go into, then a separate carrier with towels.
All of these go in a big sports bag.
Have a think of anything that might make the routine easier. Then when calm let your DH know what it is.

One of my parenting principles is focus on the primary behaviour- in this case the coin. Don't turn it into an overwhelming list with lots of other issues. That doesn't mean ignore all secondary behaviour, but generally sticking with one simple thing reduces the chance of situations escalating into a catalogue of other behaviours.

Debriefing after a meltdown when the child has the capacity to deal with it also cuts escalating it at the time. 4 is quite young for any child to come back to something, and it can become more effective as a child gets older.

I've certainly made errors with DS, particularly as I didn't suspect autism until he was 7. Learning to keep things simple, recognise signs of what his coping capacity are, prompting what's expected in advance all help reduce situations where he becomes overwhelmed and his behaviour deteriorates for it.

Your DH's attitude is concerning, particularly the way he's dragging it out afterwards. Autistic children tend to need patient approaches. It can take trial and error to work out what's best to support your child and a confrontational, stubborn parent is going to make life much harder for you all. Sulking for hours after the event is a red flag.

@ChildOfBabylon ouch. God this site can be cruel

How would you know what is needed?

They are not dog toys, they are specially designed toys for children with sensory issues/sensory seeking behaviours, anxiety and other things.

Your ignorance is showing.

Ah yes. Parenting an autistic child is just so easy.

You must live the most blissful life.

I find I need to manage my expectations depending on how my sons doing so sometimes there's opportunity to learn and other times it's fire fighting . If he was struggling I'd probably just tell him to drop the coin and maybe say not to put coins in our mouth . And leave it at that

You or your dh should not be forcing him into the pool that is cruel what did you think it would achieve?

The £ coin thing well I personally don't think he should have it in his mouth either and would have removed it straight away

Reading your posts about your husband I say YNBU.

Pool changing rooms are always a bloody nightmare. I take my DD who is nearly 3 twice a week.

We have a 'special' coin for the lockers she likes to hold (it's one of those token things), I make sure to have a snack and a drink she likes while we change back (I get her costume off and give her it whilst I dry/dress her), and then we use the 'whizzy' machine to dry costumes (she loves this). We've got this routine down and I can pretty much manage any potential crying because she knows what's coming.

If you're planning on more swimming maybe have a think about what would work for your son. Dads are more likely to wing it and tell them off for whinging but with planning and consideration there's no need for that!!

Maybe leave dad at home too....

Rereading your post , there are a few things where stuff went wrong.

1.forcing DS to go in. Even if he was fine after, the tears, the emotional overload plus all the sensory issues would've already had him in a heightened state.

2.giving him a coin when he is known for chewing. That is not giving him responsibility,that is setting him up to fail.

1. Being told off for doing the right thing and taking the coin out of his mouth. So what if he dropped it on the floor? He followed instructions and did the right thing.

1. Asking him to pick it up again .

1. Possibly the way you worded your calm time chat. It was the right thing to do though, reinforcing and acknowledging his feelings and the reasons while reminding him that it's not ok to hit/throw things.

There are things you can do in the future to ensure a better/smoother transition, however you can't be responsible for your husband's behaviour and his lack of understanding/adaptations. Unless he steps up and gets on board with the fact that your son had ASD and will need different parenting, you have some very hard choices to make.

He just kicked off!! DH that is. Apparently I "humiliated him in public" and I think I'm the "boss of every situation". And then he started really going in on me and it esclated because i wouldn't apologise. At one point he called me a "cold hearted cunt" so that was pleasant. Bloody hell.

DS pulled the sheet off his bed and I heard him say "why did you make a mess again DS. Are you trying to make mummy sad today again" the audacity of the bloke.

Pls don't anyone say I'd be better off doing it alone because that isn't an option.

My options are 1) stay and keeping trying to get on the same page 2) leave and lose all control and have our son change houses and parenting style every 3 days

Okay OP it now sounds like your husband is a total twat. I can't believe the way he speaks to you. Disgusting.

I’m sorry.
Leave it be for tonight.

Its not acceptable and he will know that. I’ve done and said inappropriate things in the heat of the moment.

Aside from this swimming incident how are things generally? Was the swimming frustration unusual or typical? What made you post, is the a final straw or was it a shock?

You need to consider the potential damage to your son if your husband doesn't get on the same page. If he keeps going this way, your son will be abused (shouting,blaming, shaming etc is abuse) . You can try and protect him by doing absolutely everything for him and walking on eggshells ,but it will still seep through.

Your best hope is your husband doing some counselling where he can talk through his fears,prejudice and worries and learn to accept he has and is raising an autistic son. Tbf, the chances of success are not great and you need to think how many years are you willing to waste abd to have your son subjected to this treatment.

He was obviously being precious. But, and I don't mean this to sound nasty, both of your lives sound pretty hellish at the moment, it might be worth trying to find things to do that don't cause these types of issues, maybe take them out separately and try to get some time together without the children. Life just isn't meant to be this tough day in day out and it's a long road ahead. You are allowed to reach breaking point and give yourselves a break.

There are few places more unpleasant than a municipal swimming pool with stinking chlorine, echoey acoustics and steaming changing rooms. I'm not surprised children don't always behave calmly in that environment. There must be better ways to have 'fun'. If someone forced me into the stinking verruca soup I too would kick off.

@10LittleMonsters Leaving wasn't an option for me, either, when the DC were small as there was nfw I was going to hand them over to their father for half the week, or even every other weekend. Once you are in the situation you are in, the choice is either stay and try to minimise the damage (which MN as a totality hates) or leave and let your precious children out of your sight and protection (which MN, weirdly, prefers). I chose to stay and try to minimise the damage. Both of the choices are pretty crap; damage will be done whatever you choose. You just have to work out which of the two choices is slightly less awful.

If you are choosing to stay, then you absolutely don't have to show a united front when your husband is being unreasonable. In fact, you shouldn't, if he is behaving in a way which is escalating a situation.

I got through it by 'grey rock'ing my husband, largely, and doing things with the children without him, so we got out of the house. We had a nice time when he wasn't there so, while it's hard work and a bit gutting to see other families having days out with nice daddies, it was better than being around him.