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Original poster

Who is being unreasonable here? Argument in swimming pool

182 replies

10LittleMonsters · 28/04/2023 14:17

Me and DH took kids swimming. DS4 is on waiting list for ASD diagnosis.

All fine. But at one point DH forced DS4 to get in pool which caused a lot of tears. Had fun though mainly

DS4 put the pound coin for the locker in his mouth in changing room.

DH tells him sternly to take it out. He does. He drops on the floor. DH tells him even more sternly to pick it up. DS4 does but it back in his mouth. DH very stern again. DS4 starts crying, throwing all the clothes everywhere; meltdown begins. Hitting us.

I calm him down. Get him dressed. Hes back to being quiet and is picking up his clothes. Says sorry.

At one point I say

"DS4 I know you were angry as daddy told you not to eat the coin, but we can't throw things or hit people"

DH interrupts obviously pissed off

"He can't bloody put a coin in his mouth. Its ridiculous"

I said

"OK OK, let's not get it all going again"

DH now mad at me. Says I undermined him in front of DS4 and in public. Says he is allowed to reiterate things.

I said DS4 was doing as he was told and he wasn't doing anything wrong in that moment and he had put the coin back ages ago.

Was I unreasonable in saying that? DS4 has very strong reactions to negative stuff and while I know we still need boundaries, we were almost all sorted and DS4 was being good so just wanted to get out the changing room

OP posts:
Original poster
10LittleMonsters · 28/04/2023 15:09

@Daftasabroom ah thank you. Hope your boy is happy.

I think DH sees my calmness as passiveness. But I'm trying to role model stuff. DH will shout "stop shouting" at DS and not see the ridiculousness of that because he's the adult! I feel we fundamentally disagree on approach

OP posts:
BoobsOnTheMoon · 28/04/2023 15:12

10LittleMonsters · 28/04/2023 15:06

@BoobsOnTheMoon thata a good point. I guess I was trying to validate DS and tell him I understood that he was angry but that being angry doesn't mean you csn hurt people. But DH was continuing to be angry and having a go so felt like it was all starting up again

Often its DS in meltdown, DH being angry or frustrated, and me trying to navigate/calm the situation.

Yeah I get it. It just sounds like it wasn't (in wanky terms) a teaching moment for anyone.

I found with my DS (autistic and now nearly 13) that we both needed a much longer gap between incident and reflection. Their corstisol levels are still really high that soon after a meltdown and I reckon same must be true for the adults - and that means the fight/flight instinct is on a hair trigger all round. So at least an hour later is better in my experience. And with some reinforcement like a social story is even better.

BoobsOnTheMoon · 28/04/2023 15:13

cortisol that should say, not cortistol!!

Iwasafool · 28/04/2023 15:14

10LittleMonsters · 28/04/2023 14:40

@DejaVoodoo but I wasn't saying he shouldn't be told to not have a coin his mouth? I was saying he had been told, the coin was taken away, he'd got upset, and then he started behaving really well and we were nearly out of there. And I thought it unnecessary and unhelpful to bring it up again angrily as likely cause another meltdown. I thought always praise when they're doing the right thing and at the moment he was doing the right thing...picking up his mess and putting on his clothes

DH is really mad with me about it so I really want to understand what I've done wrong. I know DS should be told and he was. Just didn't need repeating afterwards?? Or maybe it did.

God knows. Just done in

Coins in the mouth are dangerous, some things we just have to say that isn't OK, bit like a child running towards a busy road you can't stop to have a conversation about the rights and wrongs of it.

I'm with your husband you were the one who brought it up again. Absolutely great to praise him if he was getting dressed and picking his stuff up, I don't know why you wouldn't say that rather than referring to him being angry.

Daftasabroom · 28/04/2023 15:21

5128gap · 28/04/2023 15:01

Sorry I agree with your DH. Your DS, not once, but twice, did something that could have caused him to choke to death. The takeaway from that for your DS should be never ever to do that again. By 'validating his anger' that his dad was cross, I think you've diluted the seriousness of that message. Sometimes there are things of higher importance than centering your child's feelings. Within the context of a loving respectful parent/child relationship it will do them no harm if on occasion the key message needs to be something else.

This is dangerously wrong. You cannot parent a potentially autistic child in the same way you can any other. Meltdowns can have long term effects, meltdowns aren't about feelings they are about overload. Knowingly overloading an AS child will have no positive effects whatsoever and is tantamount to cruelty.

Thegoodbadandugly · 28/04/2023 15:26

Your partner is dealing with your son in the wrong way that meltdown could have been avoided had your partner spoke to your son properly he has escalated your son's behaviour. He needs to deescalate situations not escalate them.

Daftasabroom · 28/04/2023 15:26

Great advice from @BoobsOnTheMoon

ThisNameIsNotAvailable · 28/04/2023 15:28

I could have written your post 10 years ago. DH just doesn’t ‘get’ the challenges that DS has with his ASD and would often make the situation worse by getting cross. We had a LOT of heated discussions about this and to be honest I’m not really sure what changed it in the end but he is much better now and life is calmer.

Not much help I know but just wanted to say that I get it and that it can and does get easier

Emotionalsupportviper · 28/04/2023 15:29

DejaVoodoo · 28/04/2023 14:33

I'm sorry, I'm the parent of an ASD child (now 16) myself, but I think it's vital that a child, whether ASD or not, is taught not to put coins in their mouth. Basic safety!
They also have to learn to do as they're told (as far as is possible) for safety's sake, as well as for basic family harmony and convenience.

It won't always work, and sometimes the approach taken is the wrong one, but learning to manage an ASD child takes time.

You were both a bit U in how you interacted with each other about this, but when you've both calmed down and forgiven each other I'm sure you'll realise that you are on the same side, and both want the best for your DS.

I think it's vital that a child, whether ASD or not, is taught not to put coins in their mouth

THIS!

a) coins are filthy

b) they are also a choking hazard

Thegoodbadandugly · 28/04/2023 15:30

Also agree with Boobsonthemoon social story is the way to go your child sounds very sensory seeking.

ifthe · 28/04/2023 15:30

Worth noting that there is a strong genetic link in ASD, so I would suspect that your DH is not neurotypical either which could go someway to explaining the struggle in communication and handling the situation.

Thegoodbadandugly · 28/04/2023 15:32

Emotionalsupportviper · 28/04/2023 15:29

I think it's vital that a child, whether ASD or not, is taught not to put coins in their mouth

THIS!

a) coins are filthy

b) they are also a choking hazard

Show quote history

The child is obviously sensory seeking which is why the adults are probably best handling the money untill the child can understand the risks.

Daftasabroom · 28/04/2023 15:33

Swimming was the one physical activity we insisted DS undertake. It was a massive struggle for years. We had to bribe him £500 if got to 1km. He got his £500 (laptop for school) and never went near a pool again. He's now massively into cold water wild swimming.

messysewingbox · 28/04/2023 15:37

@Daftasabroom
I see what you mean, but I think the poster you quoted was saying that there needs to be a hierarchy where the prevention of some actions takes presidente over a possible meltdown.
So for example, in the attempt to travel by car , and consequently benefit from all the advantages this gives, you may choose to try out various methods of making sure a seatbelt is worn, even if it means dealing with, and even anticipating a meltdown. This is because you feel that the consequences of travelling in a car without a restraint are far worse than the meltdowns. Obviously if after a number of attempts you realise that your strategies aren't working then you may decide to abandon the idea as unworkable.
I don't think it's about not understanding the consequences of a meltdown, just that some things, as in the case of preventing serious harm, are worth it.

Daftasabroom · 28/04/2023 15:39

Thegoodbadandugly · 28/04/2023 15:30

Also agree with Boobsonthemoon social story is the way to go your child sounds very sensory seeking.

I'd hazard a guess it more a form of stimming to avoid the sensory overload - lights, noise, smells, people, the touch of tiles etc.

Maybe @10LittleMonsters some kind of fidget or stimming thing would help DS (and perhaps DH 😎)

BadNomad · 28/04/2023 15:43

I really think you should have taken the coin off him the first time he put it in his mouth. He should not have been given the opportunity to do it again, because the meltdown was caused by allowing him then stopping him from doing something he wanted to do.

"I know you're angry at daddy, but..." says "You're justified at being angry at daddy, but you dealt with that anger inappropriately." No. He was not justified at being angry at daddy for stopping him from doing something dirty and dangerous.

SparklyBlackKitten · 28/04/2023 15:43

You are both in the wrong
Asd or not.

You are way to passive. Your dh is too quick to anger

Potential Asd is also not something to 'hide' behind. You can't go around saying "oh ds potentially has asd, so..."

No op. If your kid can't be trusted with coins than teach him that he can't put them in his mouth and for now don't let him anywhere near them.

You get angry with dh that angers/frustrates to quickly
He gets frustrated with you because you are probably one that thinks that all your ideas are the best way to deal with your son.

You've got communication problems. If your son turns out to actually be on the asd scale, then go see a therapist. Learn to deal with him. Learn to deal with eachother. Learn to see eye to eye Together. Ads or not actually

Freefall212 · 28/04/2023 15:46

10LittleMonsters · 28/04/2023 14:49

@Nordicrain @WhatNoRaisins I do try that but when I say things like "I've been reading online and we really have to focus on positive reinforcement" or something DH says "they they they...always about they say this and they say that. I'm fuckinh allowed to tell me kid not to eat coins as many times as I like" and then we start really fighting. I just can't seem to get us to talk calmly. He did used to shout at DS a lot and I told him he kept doing it I'd leave and that's stopped now. But DH is really mad with me. Telling me I have a go at him to distract from the fact I don't know how to handle DS.

It's such hard work and we don't feel like partners in it and I can't seem to fix it

But based on your account, you were the one that brough it back up again and your comment to DS made it seem like it is fine to eat the coin and daddy shouldn't have taken it from you but you can't hit. You called your DH angry. Being stern about a safety issue isn't anger. I would be irritated too if I told my child sternly to not step into the street again and my DH called me angry to my child and undermined me the way you did.

I am on DHs side here.

LaMaG · 28/04/2023 15:47

10LittleMonsters · 28/04/2023 15:09

@Daftasabroom ah thank you. Hope your boy is happy.

I think DH sees my calmness as passiveness. But I'm trying to role model stuff. DH will shout "stop shouting" at DS and not see the ridiculousness of that because he's the adult! I feel we fundamentally disagree on approach

OP I think you might be me!! Same sh*t all the time here, kids are older now but DH gets cross when emotions are high then shouts or gives out unnecessarily. Then it all escalates. I do what I'm advised by experts ie staying calm diffusing things etc and everyone else gets to vent then I'm nearly bent over from the stress of it all. Someone has to be the grown up. Constant arguments with DH about it, when you have children that are neurodivergent you can't parent just on instinct or how you were raised it has to be adjusted to suit the child. It sounds like you are learning this but your DH has not. Best you can do, IF Ds gets diagnosis, is make sure DH attends all the appointments or supports so he hears the advice first hand.

WhatNoRaisins · 28/04/2023 15:48

In any case it sounded like you both needed to focus on just getting him out of the stressful environment as soon as possible without any more fuss.

Lovelyring · 28/04/2023 15:49

"DS4 I know you were angry as daddy told you not to eat the coin, but we can't throw things or hit people" - when I read this, I immediately thought you were basically saying "Daddy was wrong to tell you not to eat the coin and you were right to be angry, but even if you are rightly angry you shouldn't throw things or hit people".

I agree with @BadNomad .

I would have been annoyed if you'd said that too, even though I assume that's not what you meant.

ThisNameIsNotAvailable · 28/04/2023 15:50

BadNomad · 28/04/2023 15:43

I really think you should have taken the coin off him the first time he put it in his mouth. He should not have been given the opportunity to do it again, because the meltdown was caused by allowing him then stopping him from doing something he wanted to do.

"I know you're angry at daddy, but..." says "You're justified at being angry at daddy, but you dealt with that anger inappropriately." No. He was not justified at being angry at daddy for stopping him from doing something dirty and dangerous.

It doesn’t say that at all. It says ‘I recognise that you are feeling this way…’ (and helps DS learn to recognise and name emotions) ‘….but this is what is happening here’ (and helps DS understand that there is a bigger picture to be seen.

Inthesamesinkingboat · 28/04/2023 15:52

@LaMaG DH gets cross when emotions are high
have you ever asked yourself why he gets cross? You say someone has to be the grown up - and you want understanding for “children who are neurodivergent”. Neurodivergence rarely comes from nowhere- it is often genetic. Many older people went through childhood undiagnosed. I’d be interested if the same tolerance you want your DH to show towards your kids should also be shown towards your DH? Just a thought.