Who is being unreasonable here? Argument in swimming pool

[10LittleMonsters]

Me and DH took kids swimming. DS4 is on waiting list for ASD diagnosis.

All fine. But at one point DH forced DS4 to get in pool which caused a lot of tears. Had fun though mainly

DS4 put the pound coin for the locker in his mouth in changing room.

DH tells him sternly to take it out. He does. He drops on the floor. DH tells him even more sternly to pick it up. DS4 does but it back in his mouth. DH very stern again. DS4 starts crying, throwing all the clothes everywhere; meltdown begins. Hitting us.

I calm him down. Get him dressed. Hes back to being quiet and is picking up his clothes. Says sorry.

At one point I say

"DS4 I know you were angry as daddy told you not to eat the coin, but we can't throw things or hit people"

DH interrupts obviously pissed off

"He can't bloody put a coin in his mouth. Its ridiculous"

I said

"OK OK, let's not get it all going again"

DH now mad at me. Says I undermined him in front of DS4 and in public. Says he is allowed to reiterate things.

I said DS4 was doing as he was told and he wasn't doing anything wrong in that moment and he had put the coin back ages ago.

Was I unreasonable in saying that? DS4 has very strong reactions to negative stuff and while I know we still need boundaries, we were almost all sorted and DS4 was being good so just wanted to get out the changing room

Acknowledging the child's emotions is not undermining the Dads parenting. It just isn't. It's good parenting to talk about how DC are feeling so they can recognise their own feelings. It's a good idea to do it when everyone is calm.

Your DH sounds overly authoritarian and confrontational in his parenting. Which isn't great at the best of times, let alone when you have a likely autistic 4 year old.

I suspect those on DH side don't have AS kids and haven't gone through an AS meltdown. They are absolutely not your average toddler temper tantrum.

She does by not indicating there was anything wrong with eating the coin and by not reinforcing or backing her husband in stopping him eating the coin. The only things she says need to be changed or to not hit or throw things. It reads as when daddy makes you angry by telling you something, you can't throw or hit.

Op, your little son is only 4 years old, and your dh does not know how to act whether at home or in public it seems. You keep your calm but dh falls apart and makes scenes when he doesn’t need to. He riles himself up over and provokes his tiny son into getting upset too.

It doesn’t have to be this way and you try to keep everyone on an even keel but dh is acting foolish and not much you can do about it. You’ve tried to reason with him, his way does not help in guiding children, the results are no good, why does he keep doing it?

It’s like those women and men who scream at their children in public and make scenes to look like they are these by the book upstanding parents setting their children straight. No, they look foolish. At the other end are the parents who let their children do anything.

I don’t know how you get through to him, how exhausting for you all.

Ultimately you are correct, praise the good and not shouting and etc is all better parenting than constant negativity. But I don’t understand why you brought it up again once the drama was already past?

we were almost all sorted and DS4 was being good so just wanted to get out the changing room

You just didn’t need to reopen the discussion about his behaviour that was already dealt with. And particularly not if you didn’t mention that Daddy was right that coins in the mouth is dangerous, and coins in the mouth that have been picked up off a swimming pool changing room floor is disgusting and dangerous.

You’re right overall but on this occasion it’s not hard to see why your DH was annoyed again and felt undermined.

I'm not going to press a button as you are both right however we have ASD kids and have had a lot of behaviour therapy. The last guy was insistent about one voice coming from the parents. Even if you think the other parent is wrong, say nothing. Say it in private afterwards and not in front of the child. Otherwise you may have a child who continues to do whatever they want cos they know one parent will support them even if the other doesn't and play you off.

So this is something that happens with us a lot, whereby I do agree with what my husband says but I disagree with HOW he says it. He gets unnecessarily angry way too quickly and escalates the situation.

A trick for handling any situation would be to not lay blame and distract them eg by saying right lets get going now, rather than stand there and drag it out with your DH going on on and on (which my DH also does). Our last ABA guy suggested my DH go for therapy! That hasn't happened. Kids don't lick this stuff off the ground.

How do you know that's what the child would understand from it? Because it's obvious the father didn't see it that way, nor do a lot of people on this thread.

She could have said "I know you're angry, but you can't throw things and hit people when you're angry" or "I know you're angry because you're not allowed to put coins in your mouth, but you shouldn't throw things and hit people when you're angry."

There was no need to say "I know you're angry at what daddy did." because that makes it sound like daddy caused this.

FFS an AS meltdown is not about emotions or feelings. It's probably closer to a full blown panic attack or even epileptic fit.

I actually agree with your husband but I see where you were coming from. I would have said that i know you were angry because of the coin but coins are dangerous to put In your mouth. In a way its undermining - you didn't validate why he took it away, you validated your child's anger.

I'm not sure I explained properly, I mean the most important thing is that your Child doesn't put coins In his mouth as they are dangerous, the calm moment should have focused on that, rather than focusing on the fact he hit. I can see where your husband is coming from.

@Daftasabroom ... I have an autistic child. I full well know what a autistic meltdown is.

I calm him down. Get him dressed. Hes back to being quiet and is picking up his clothes. Says sorry.

At one point I say

"DS4 I know you were angry as daddy told you not to eat the coin, but we can't throw things or hit people"

DH interrupts obviously pissed off

"He can't bloody put a coin in his mouth. Its ridiculous"

I said

"OK OK, let's not get it all going again"

YWBU

It was over. Done. Calmed down. Your DC had said 'sorry'.

So what did you do next? YOU brought it up again, essentially downplaying your DH's actions in stopping him putting a coin in his mouth which was the right thing to do, btw! and made it sound like you were blaming your DH for kicking it all off.

And then you told your DH not to get it all going again ... when that's exactly what YOU had just done!

You owe your DH an apology.

I think you both have your DC's best interests at heart, but I also think you think that you 'do' it better. And you're undermining your DH's efforts to be involved with parenting a child who may have special needs. You two need to get on the same page and/or allow each other to handle their own moments with your DC.

@10LittleMonsters maybe post again in parenting, relationships or the Sen board if you want some actual help with getting your DH on board with some effective parenting strategies for children in general and particularly for children with autism.

But at one point DH forced DS4 to get in pool which caused a lot of tears.

Forced?
My autistic son finds swimming pools VERY challenging. The strange acoustics and sensory overload with water, the smell of chlorine, strangers splashing, kids yelling, the wet floors.

If your DS needs oral comfort (which is why he put the coin in his mouth) then give him a safe chew toy - chewbangles or chewbuddies.
Social stories about what to do/what will happen at the swimming pool are essential.
Forcing, yelling must stop.

Your DH needs to stop prioritising his own frustration and educate himself.
I wish you luck OP.

Then you should know it's not about feelings and emotion.

But I have reread your post and maybe I jumped the gun a bit. As Vinny Jones said "it's been emotional" (for me that is!).

Keep an eye out for shut downs in late teenage it's almost scarier, particularly at Uni.

This. There was no need to say anything further about it once it had calmed down.

YABU - you can acknowledge and name feelings without tying it to the other parent's behaviour eg 'I can see you're angry because you're not allowed to put coins in your mouth'.
The fact you tied his anger to DH made it seem like a criticism of DH's behaviour. Plus as a PP said there are non-negotiables about safety with coins and swimming pools and changing rooms (with wet floors, etc). I wouldn't have been reflecting feelings back at that moment. You escalated it again.

I'm afraid YABU, OP - the moment had passed and you brought the issue up again, and by implication undermined your DH in doing so. There are clearly long-running divisions between you on parenting styles so I'm not surprised your DH was angry.

Yes, I have a child with autism, and yes, I've seen some pretty spectacular meltdowns over the years, before anyone disputes my credentials.

Two of our essential rules for parenting have been to back each other up and to keep our parenting disagreements for a time when our children aren't around. DH and I didn't always agree on approaches but we'd thrash it out between us afterwards.

Sometimes that resulted in one of us apologising to our DS that we'd got it wrong - there's no shame in that and kids need to know it's OK to get thrings wrong and say sorry.

The other thing was learning which situations were likely to put DS on edge and to mitigate them as much as possible. For DS that was a extra big hooded towel so he could feel enclosed and block out the bright lights as it got time to get dried and dressed.

And finally, reminding ourselves (whichever of us was getting angry) "He's not doing this to me, or to be naughty. He is showing that something is wrong for him." That helped keep tempers cooled for us.

Hope the situation is diffused now and you can have a pleasant friday evening.

@JulieHoney good post, really good post.

Not a hill to die on, but you were correct in explaining it to your ds in the moment. I think your dh was just having a moment himself. When all is calm have a chat about it and about how to consistently handle situations when ds needs to be corrected. You and dh do need to have same/similar responses for the sake of your ds.

"DH says "they they they...always about they say this and they say that. I'm fuckinh allowed to tell me kid not to eat coins as many times as I like" and then we start really fighting. I just can't seem to get us to talk calmly. He did used to shout at DS a lot and I told him he kept doing it I'd leave and that's stopped now. But DH is really mad with me. Telling me I have a go at him to distract from the fact I don't know how to handle DS. "

So this is all hunky dory behaviour then from the DH? The OPs being unreasonable but the DH has his finger on the pulse?

Thank you
<curtsies>

This sounds really difficult overall and it sounds like you and DH are struggling in how to manage your son and how your parenting approaches differ in the moment.

It sounds like you were already feeling uncomfortable at the way that 'DH forced DS4 into the pool'.

When you said '"DS4 I know you were angry as daddy told you not to eat the coin, but we can't throw things or hit people"... it could have been interpreted by your DH that you were saying that Daddy should not have acted in that way.

I think that may be why your DH reacted in the way that he did and I think your comment may have been influenced by you feeling that Dh had managed neither situation in a way that you might have done.

These are normal interactions between stressed parents. What is important is how you navigate them and how you work out how to deal with them in the future.

Do you think DH should not have forced DS4 into the pool? How do you navigate that?

Do you think that Dh was too stern about the issue with the coin? What would you have done differently? How can you diffuse these situations in the future? If you let them play out, can you make a conscious decisions to do that and to not mention it until much later ...

Maybe... DH, today was tricky when DS4 wouldn't get into the pool / kept putting the coin in his mouth - how can we navigate this situations together to prevent them escalating into tears, crying and throwing things?

Your DH sounds like he has no clue about any children, certainly not those with possible ASD.

He sounds like he just wants to assert himself in public and dominate your child, which is very much not the way to go.