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Original poster

To think that women still can’t have it all?

200 replies

Oldbalance · 28/04/2023 09:49

Posting this off the back of recent decisions I had to made, that have got me thinking about the sacrifices women continue to make if the want DC.

DH and I are TTC our first DC, I am 35 and DH is 38 so already time is less on my side. I was recently offered a new role with a pay rise, but would need to work there for the qualifying period before being entitled to maternity pay, which was only enhanced for 6 weeks. In my current company full salary is paid for 5 months stepping down to half pay. Due to rising COL we would struggle to have a decent quality of life on one salary and that is despite having a small mortgage. In addition the private medical cover in my role covers fertility treatment if we need it, it wouldn’t in new role. Weighing these things up, I decided not to take it, even for the initial pay raise, with a view to looking again if we cannot conceive.

Whilst DH sympathises, I did have to highlight to him the difficulty women face due to these circumstances and when I spelled it all out to him I think he started to understand why it’s a crap deal for women. He is the higher earner to it doesn’t make sense for him to take paternity leave which would be unpaid, it has never even been a consideration that he wouldn’t take a job for more money because of these reasons.

When weighing up what to do, quite a few family members and friends were pretty resigned to the fact that women just can’t have it all and now I’m inclined to agree even though in the past I would have said it was rubbish. But is it unreasonable to say that when it comes down to it, because of biology women actually can’t have it all, or am I missing something here?

OP posts:
flowertoday · 28/04/2023 09:57

Of course no one can have it all. Having children will involve sacrifices of both money and time. Hopefully in good partnerships the sacrifice can be shared. In my experience women tend to shoulder more of the responsibility for children.
The important thing is not to end up equating having it all with doing it all. Some things will have to go. What those things are are unique to every parent and it doesn't have to be negative to make compromises to prioritise what most matters to you.

YouAreNotBatman · 28/04/2023 10:00

Not to be unsympathetic, but the whole ’have it all’ attitude is going to cause dissapointment.
Even if you’d happent to get it / have it all.

I don’t see it the way you do.
Having children is a choice, most people have them for selfish reasons. There is no secret it’s the women who carry, birth, breastfeed the babies, nor is the fact that society sees women as the parent, the one who does it (almost) all of it. Studies have been out for years - decades and still women think they’re going to be the special one.

If you choose to still go on to having kids, I’m not sure what these people who complain about it after want really.

I don't think anyone gets it all, kids or not.
Again, I don’t want to be unsympathetic, but this women martyring, complaining, victimising themselves because of the choices they made is very tiring.

ditalini · 28/04/2023 10:01

Yep. No-one can have it all.

When ds2 was born I was the main earner so dh stayed at home and I worked.

Having someone at home to do all the childcare, nursery and school admin, keep things ticking over was FANTASTIC. But a lot of my friends felt sorry for me because I was missing out on "precious moments" with ds2. Wonder if they thought that about their husbands?

TheNachtzehrer · 28/04/2023 10:04

What do you even mean by "have it all", though?

Most employers offer shared parental leave to both genders now so men are eligible for the same time off and pay following a birth as women are. If your DH has never paid attention to that, more fool him; he should.

I feel like I have it all. I have DC, a well-paid career I really enjoy, friends, hobbies, and a marriage that is genuinely a 50:50 partnership. It wasn't always easy in the early years with DC but we got there.

HowManySunflowers · 28/04/2023 10:08

To be honest OP I'd have taken the job! It may take longer than you think to get pregnant. And if it happens quickly I'm sure you could manage with a combination of shorter maternity leave / DH using some leave etc.

Isheabastard · 28/04/2023 10:10

I always thought that ‘having it all’ really meant ‘having it all to do’.

I agree biology and children makes life much harder in many ways for women. Things men just don’t have to think about, and even worse, some me just don’t care enough to think about.

Scalottia · 28/04/2023 10:11

YouAreNotBatman · 28/04/2023 10:00

Not to be unsympathetic, but the whole ’have it all’ attitude is going to cause dissapointment.
Even if you’d happent to get it / have it all.

I don’t see it the way you do.
Having children is a choice, most people have them for selfish reasons. There is no secret it’s the women who carry, birth, breastfeed the babies, nor is the fact that society sees women as the parent, the one who does it (almost) all of it. Studies have been out for years - decades and still women think they’re going to be the special one.

If you choose to still go on to having kids, I’m not sure what these people who complain about it after want really.

I don't think anyone gets it all, kids or not.
Again, I don’t want to be unsympathetic, but this women martyring, complaining, victimising themselves because of the choices they made is very tiring.

Agree with this post, especially the comment about martyrs.

No, nobody can 'have it all'. What even is 'all' anyway? I mean it's different for everyone isn't it.

fUNNYfACE36 · 28/04/2023 10:13

When parents 'have it all' it is the children, and then society who suffer.
I have worked with children ( not school) from the ages of 4 to 16 for many many years, and without a shadow of a doubt, overall children who have spent their baby and preschool years in a nursery, are the worst behaved, the lowest self esteem and resilience and the least independent.
And that's no surprise when you consider they have basically been brought themselves up. I am not blaming the parents , it is the cost of living vs salary that necessitates thus.

SpringOn · 28/04/2023 10:18

I dunno.

I think as a couple it is possible to have it all. It’s just alone it’s hard. And it’s often the female who ‘sacrifices’ her move up the career ladder. But it doesn’t have to be.

I have three kids, a mainly WFH well paid job that supports us all, and a DH who has been happy to take the strain at home. So we were able to have the best of all worlds. I went back after 8 months with my first two and four months with the third. For us this worked because I loved my job and he didn’t!

SpringOn · 28/04/2023 10:19

.. and when I went back to work DH was full time at home with them. It’s worked really well for us.

EarringsandLipstick · 28/04/2023 10:23

But is it unreasonable to say that when it comes down to it, because of biology women actually can’t have it all, or am I missing something here?

I think you are being highly unreasonable.

Life for everyone involves choices. Right now, your life sounds good - both working, happy marriage, starting a family. As I read it, you don't yet have fertility concerns?

I too would have taken the job. You are making decisions based on possibilities not where you are now. However, it's valid for you to do that.

What I think is invalid, is to make it sound like you've been dealt a poor hand and are in some position of disadvantage, which you are not.

Circumferences · 28/04/2023 10:24

I'm not convinced the premise of feminism was that "women should have it all" but more that responsibilities and burdens and sacrifices should be shared by both men and women.

In your situation, your DH seems pretty flat out confident that he's not going to make sacrifices eg take a paternity leave from the start. I'd tread carefully there. I wouldn't stand for a hard No.

You're trying for a baby so sorry to state the obvious but you'll need to drop off/pick up from nursery, school, clubs and playdates for pretty much the next sixteen years. Your DH needs to understand he'll need to be more flexible with his work times so you can have career opportunities too.

thisisallquitecomplicated · 28/04/2023 10:24

I know some do have it all, but they may have supportive jobs, easy pregnancies, healthy kids without developmental challenges, a supportive partner (or failing the previous, the money to outsource part of the caring role (nanny, etc.))

If you lack any of these components, something will fall by the wayside, and it is most likely the primary caregiver (usually woman)'s career.

RosaBonheur · 28/04/2023 10:24

It is difficult to avoid making these career sacrifices at least temporarily as a woman, whilst TTC and having babies.

One thing I would say though, is that it is considered completely normal for a woman to take a drastic cut in income so that she can take a full year's maternity leave.

Are you planning on going back to work when your baby is 5 months old so that your salary is unaffected by maternity leave?

No, thought not.

With that in mind, why should your husband not take paternity leave? So what if he's the higher earner? Plenty of women are the higher earner and plan ahead for a temporary drop in income so they can take a full maternity leave. (I am currently doing this, and I earn almost twice as much as my husband.)

Your husband taking paternity leave is one of the best ways to ensure that he plays an equal role in parenting your children and you don't become the default parent. This will make it much easier for you to resume your career progression after your maternity leave.

TeaKitten · 28/04/2023 10:28

Nobody can have it all, it’s great you work for a company with such good options for maternity. Your DH clearly can’t have it all either, he’s a high earner but for a company that doesn’t have a paternity leave package so he doesn’t get the option of leave with his baby, that’s a shame and poor of his company. Nobody gets it all, but if you manage to have a baby while working for this company you have a generous leave package and get the joy of time with your baby so it’s not all bad.

RosaBonheur · 28/04/2023 10:29

fUNNYfACE36 · 28/04/2023 10:13

When parents 'have it all' it is the children, and then society who suffer.
I have worked with children ( not school) from the ages of 4 to 16 for many many years, and without a shadow of a doubt, overall children who have spent their baby and preschool years in a nursery, are the worst behaved, the lowest self esteem and resilience and the least independent.
And that's no surprise when you consider they have basically been brought themselves up. I am not blaming the parents , it is the cost of living vs salary that necessitates thus.

That's funny because I live in France and the perception here is the total opposite. It's the children who didn't go to crèche who find it hard to adjust to being in the school environment.

As far as I'm aware there is no research supporting your point of view, and your comments are ill informed and hurtful towards working parents who are just trying to do what is best for their families. Not to mention bad for women's equality, since the implication of what you are saying is that we should all just put our careers to one side as soon as we have reproduced.

RosaBonheur · 28/04/2023 10:30

TeaKitten · 28/04/2023 10:28

Nobody can have it all, it’s great you work for a company with such good options for maternity. Your DH clearly can’t have it all either, he’s a high earner but for a company that doesn’t have a paternity leave package so he doesn’t get the option of leave with his baby, that’s a shame and poor of his company. Nobody gets it all, but if you manage to have a baby while working for this company you have a generous leave package and get the joy of time with your baby so it’s not all bad.

He does have the option though.

He can save up to be able to take paternity leave, just like millions of women do.

TeaKitten · 28/04/2023 10:32

RosaBonheur · 28/04/2023 10:30

He does have the option though.

He can save up to be able to take paternity leave, just like millions of women do.

Show quote history

That’s still not having it all though is it.

EarringsandLipstick · 28/04/2023 10:33

fUNNYfACE36 · 28/04/2023 10:13

When parents 'have it all' it is the children, and then society who suffer.
I have worked with children ( not school) from the ages of 4 to 16 for many many years, and without a shadow of a doubt, overall children who have spent their baby and preschool years in a nursery, are the worst behaved, the lowest self esteem and resilience and the least independent.
And that's no surprise when you consider they have basically been brought themselves up. I am not blaming the parents , it is the cost of living vs salary that necessitates thus.

That's a ridiculous ill-informed post (I'd love to know where you worked!)

Children in full-time childcare are not 'bringing themselves up'. They are being raised by their parents, and cared for by appropriate care givers.

CornishGem1975 · 28/04/2023 10:33

Depends what 'having it all' looks like to you as a person.

Easterfunbun · 28/04/2023 10:34

They can’t. My mum was a career woman. We suffered. There was not enough time or investment. She regrets it now in her retirement.

slowquickstep · 28/04/2023 10:36

Men go to work and stick with a job that suits them. They find a partner and said partner becomes staff, the bloke hen expects to never again have to think about laundry, housework, or anything that is of not interest to them. They still keep up their hobbies after children arrive and see it as the job of the child's mother to parent, only getting involved if it makes them look like dad of the year. If the relationship breaks down they swan off and find a new housekeeper. Women can never ever have it all. Once we have a child our lives and priorities change more than we could ever have imagined before we have them. Women have been sold a lie for years.

LolaSmiles · 28/04/2023 10:36

Nobody can have it all, but we all have different choices to make.

Your DH also can't have it all as he's chosen to prioritise a high earning career with poor paternity/parental leave. That was his choice though.

Too often the women having it all seems to rely on people assuming nothing should change when a woman wants to become /becomes a mother. In reality things do change and that's not a bad thing.

The big issue is that often men aren't willing to step back and also accept the impact of impending parenthood/parenthood on their choices.

E.g. they prioritise non-family friendly careers, don't consider shared parental leave (because in their eyes that's for women to worry about not men, why should men worry about whether they're eligible for decent shared parental leave? Why should they consider the impact of career moves on future family life, because that's woman's work?) then when a child comes it's assumed their wife/partner will take the longest leave, or worse "it just makes sense" for the woman to take it/ the man "can't" take it. He could have, if he'd actually thought about it in his career planning, but he didn't because he assumed that he wouldn't have to change anything when he becomes a parent.

Reugny · 28/04/2023 10:39

CornishGem1975 · 28/04/2023 10:33

Depends what 'having it all' looks like to you as a person.

This

The best quote I heard about this was "No one can have it all all the time"

Sapphire387 · 28/04/2023 10:39

It's also the systems around maternity leave and pay that are broken, as detailed in your post.