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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think that women still can’t have it all?

200 replies

Oldbalance · 28/04/2023 09:49

Posting this off the back of recent decisions I had to made, that have got me thinking about the sacrifices women continue to make if the want DC.

DH and I are TTC our first DC, I am 35 and DH is 38 so already time is less on my side. I was recently offered a new role with a pay rise, but would need to work there for the qualifying period before being entitled to maternity pay, which was only enhanced for 6 weeks. In my current company full salary is paid for 5 months stepping down to half pay. Due to rising COL we would struggle to have a decent quality of life on one salary and that is despite having a small mortgage. In addition the private medical cover in my role covers fertility treatment if we need it, it wouldn’t in new role. Weighing these things up, I decided not to take it, even for the initial pay raise, with a view to looking again if we cannot conceive.

Whilst DH sympathises, I did have to highlight to him the difficulty women face due to these circumstances and when I spelled it all out to him I think he started to understand why it’s a crap deal for women. He is the higher earner to it doesn’t make sense for him to take paternity leave which would be unpaid, it has never even been a consideration that he wouldn’t take a job for more money because of these reasons.

When weighing up what to do, quite a few family members and friends were pretty resigned to the fact that women just can’t have it all and now I’m inclined to agree even though in the past I would have said it was rubbish. But is it unreasonable to say that when it comes down to it, because of biology women actually can’t have it all, or am I missing something here?

OP posts:

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 13:19

@DojaPhat

Kate Middleton doesn't have it all.

She's sold her soul for the money.

She doesn't have any independence or choice.

Her oh cheats on her.

I'd rather be poor

ChevyCamaro · 01/05/2023 13:19

Thepeopleversuswork · 28/04/2023 11:11

I hate this "women can't have it all" cliche with a passion. It makes me absolutely see red for three main reasons:

a) because people post and talk about it with this wide-eyed "lightbulb moment" tone as if no one had ever thought about it before. There's a post on here every week about this and it's not earth-shattering. It's a hoary old cliche.

b) far more importantly: because actually, whisper it, women can have it all and quite a lot of us do.

c) possibly most important of all, because no one ever tells men they "can't have it all".

What this phrase actually means if you unpack the politics behind it, is women telling other women they have to make a binary choice between having children or having a career and if they decide to do both, their children will suffer.

And I can tell you that's total, toxic bollocks.

I have both. Not because I chose it, it was forced on me. I'm a single mother so I have to work and I have a kid. I make it work because I have to. But actually I'm pretty bloody good at both and my kid is happy and well adjusted and I have a good, interesting and well-paid job.

I'm not saying this to be smug or arrogant. I'm saying it because I'm sick and tired of people telling me I'm damaging my child by working. People who think working women are hurting their kids or selling themselves short are part of the problem here. There are bloody good reasons why some of us "have it all". And the most important of those is that not being dependent on a man is literally worth its weight in gold. And if that means being a bit more tired or a bit more stretched, so be it.

Finally, and this is where it matters most: the reason most women struggle to deal with this isn't because women aren't capable of having or doing it all. It's because the men in their lives don't do enough.

So please let's change the record so instead of bleating on about "women can't have it all" we say "men don't do half of it and they should".

All of this and with bells on ^

Lcb123 · 01/05/2023 13:20

I don’t know what “have it all” even means. Life is all about choices and compromises. You could have taken the job and just dealt with it if you get pregnant.

midgemadgemodge · 01/05/2023 13:22

You can be a full time mum and work full time but , unless you have a partner who doesn't , your child will end up in childcare

unless you have a better than average partner you will find it hard to progress your career

So I would say you can't have a partnership with children where both parents have high flying careers without sone additional help with childcare and probably also home care

That's less about biology and more about hours in a day and how many hours you need or want to give to one aspect of your life including how many hours you want to parent

If you chose to parent for more hours than your partner because you feel it's important to personally look after your child all the time that's (for many women and men ) a simple choice where your choice and belief is different to your partners

If you believe a mother fails her child by not giving up her life for the child well I think that's rubbish

If you think more could be done to prevent the career cliff caused by giving birth and wanting to prioritise a young family for a few years , I would agree , but capitalism wouldn't

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 13:22

@babyproblems

What does capitalism have to do with child rearing?

DojaPhat · 01/05/2023 13:23

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 13:19

@DojaPhat

Kate Middleton doesn't have it all.

She's sold her soul for the money.

She doesn't have any independence or choice.

Her oh cheats on her.

I'd rather be poor

Not many of us are living the lives we wanted at merely 13/14. She is. To you she sold her soul but for her she's living her dream. If I had had the nouse to bag a prince when young I'd have spent the past decade playing castles and tiaras with real life castles and tiaras without a single thought about how I'm going to pay my next energy bill.

Ladysquamy · 01/05/2023 13:23

Well, in most couples, both people have to work. That's not 'trying to have it all'. That's just keeping a roof over your head. In 2023, like it or not, being a stay at home parent is a luxury. Having children is then a choice and of course that's going to make life more expensive and complex. I have two. I also work full time. I don't call that having it all. I just call it living and supporting my family. The separate issue is the biological clock one. Yes, most women's fertility declines until it pretty much stops at 45. Everyone had that information from early on, so it's your own choice what to do with it.

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 13:24

@DojaPhat

What a depressing dream

midgemadgemodge · 01/05/2023 13:26

Why is childcare so expensive ? Because it's managed as a capitalist trade in the uk

Why don't men do more childcare? Because they are valued for being productive economic units and childcare is too long term a benefit for capitalism

TheMoops · 01/05/2023 13:26

You can be a full time mum and work full time but , unless you have a partner who doesn't , your child will end up in childcare

And? Childcare can be a positive experience.

unless you have a better than average partner you will find it hard to progress your career

Lots of people DO have better than average partners.

So I would say you can't have a partnership with children where both parents have high flying careers without sone additional help with childcare and probably also home care

Childcare is needed but home care too? Not necessarily.
What needs to happen is that BOTH parents need to view each others careers as equally important and BOTH take equal responsibility for childcare and household chores.

Nordicrain · 01/05/2023 13:30

midgemadgemodge · 01/05/2023 13:22

You can be a full time mum and work full time but , unless you have a partner who doesn't , your child will end up in childcare

unless you have a better than average partner you will find it hard to progress your career

So I would say you can't have a partnership with children where both parents have high flying careers without sone additional help with childcare and probably also home care

That's less about biology and more about hours in a day and how many hours you need or want to give to one aspect of your life including how many hours you want to parent

If you believe a mother fails her child by not giving up her life for the child well I think that's rubbish

If you think more could be done to prevent the career cliff caused by giving birth and wanting to prioritise a young family for a few years , I would agree , but capitalism wouldn't

You can be a full time mum and work full time but , unless you have a partner who doesn't , your child will end up in childcare

And what's wrong with that?

OnlyFannys · 01/05/2023 13:31

The job dilemma for me is a simple matter of priorities rather than women not "having it all" (one never even really understood what that phrase is supposed to mean tbh). You are in a role with a great benefits package, with every job offer you consider the package (salary and benefits) as a whole when deciding whether to take it. Currently the benefits package included in the role you have outweigh the package being offered in the new role because you are currently prioritising having a child, and there is nothing wrong with that but I dont think this is some kind of feminist issue as not everyone will prioritise this. Many people would prefer a higher paying role and due to their personal circumstances couldn't give a shit what the maternity benefits are and so would prioritise the new role. You are just weighing up your options and making a choice that best suits your family

Florissant · 01/05/2023 13:42

CalpolDependant · 28/04/2023 10:56

“Dressed up as humour” 😂

This person doesn’t understand jokes.

Show quote history

Jokes are supposed to be funny. Your post wasn't.

Florissant · 01/05/2023 13:43

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 13:19

@DojaPhat

Kate Middleton doesn't have it all.

She's sold her soul for the money.

She doesn't have any independence or choice.

Her oh cheats on her.

I'd rather be poor

midgemadgemodge · 01/05/2023 13:58

@Nordicrain

There is nothing wrong with a child in childcare - sorry I realise it's easy to read it that ways

if people think having it all means looking after your children full time and having a high flying career - well that's never going to work, male or female

it's about how much you manage to make these choices partnership choices or your personal ( womans ) choice

And if you feel guilted into giving up something you want because your partner won't step up or you feel society pressure that's bad

But you can make it your choice

Florissant · 01/05/2023 14:01

Life is a series of compromises for everyone.

Yolo12345 · 01/05/2023 14:03

Wait until your kids prefer your DH because he is more fun...! 😂

Peppadog · 01/05/2023 14:11

No you can't, but neither can men. Noone can have it all, you make choices.
My DH is pretty envious of the time I get at home with the kids, he certainly doesnt think he 'has it all'. He can't leave that role as we need the money.

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 14:18

@Peppadog

You could swap

Peppadog · 01/05/2023 14:22

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 14:18

@Peppadog

You could swap

I wouldn't want to and I couldn't earn what he does now anyway. I don't 'have it all' and I'm very happy with that.

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 14:23

@Peppadog

You're dh isn't though

CalpolDependant · 01/05/2023 15:32

Florissant · 01/05/2023 13:42

Jokes are supposed to be funny. Your post wasn't.

Show quote history

Jesus fucking Christ. 😂 Fancy trawling back all this way just to have a pop. 😂😂 At least that much is funny, even though I don’t think you were trying to be.

threemiaowingfaces · 03/05/2023 11:45

This concept of 'having inonsense and sets people (men and women) up for unnecessary dissatisfaction with life. One person's 'having it all' would be another person's 'having a stressed life' or 'having a lonely life' or 'having a financially restricted life' or even 'having a breakdown.' There are always compromises and you choose your compromise, male or female.

threemiaowingfaces · 03/05/2023 11:46

'having it all' is nonsense

whatcangowrong · 05/05/2023 09:01

I think it's pretty much possible to have a very good career and spend a lot of time with your kids these days, for both sexes. Not in every job, sure. But it's utterly wrong to limit yourself ahead of time.

since getting pregnant first time (I have 3 kids now, but 2 and 3 were twins) I've been promoted, my salary has almost doubled, and I've had access to great work opportunities. I've also taken time off with sick children, taken maternity leave (not full years! But most women aren't prepared to "go back early") My boss also said to me "if you need to leave at 5 for nursery and the meeting is scheduled to end at 5, you walk out at 5. It's not your problem if they can't run a meeting to time"

im lucky I have a supportive husband, also doing very well in his career.

Im determined to keep making a success of my career to show my children it can be done

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