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Original poster

To think that women still can’t have it all?

200 replies

Oldbalance · 28/04/2023 09:49

Posting this off the back of recent decisions I had to made, that have got me thinking about the sacrifices women continue to make if the want DC.

DH and I are TTC our first DC, I am 35 and DH is 38 so already time is less on my side. I was recently offered a new role with a pay rise, but would need to work there for the qualifying period before being entitled to maternity pay, which was only enhanced for 6 weeks. In my current company full salary is paid for 5 months stepping down to half pay. Due to rising COL we would struggle to have a decent quality of life on one salary and that is despite having a small mortgage. In addition the private medical cover in my role covers fertility treatment if we need it, it wouldn’t in new role. Weighing these things up, I decided not to take it, even for the initial pay raise, with a view to looking again if we cannot conceive.

Whilst DH sympathises, I did have to highlight to him the difficulty women face due to these circumstances and when I spelled it all out to him I think he started to understand why it’s a crap deal for women. He is the higher earner to it doesn’t make sense for him to take paternity leave which would be unpaid, it has never even been a consideration that he wouldn’t take a job for more money because of these reasons.

When weighing up what to do, quite a few family members and friends were pretty resigned to the fact that women just can’t have it all and now I’m inclined to agree even though in the past I would have said it was rubbish. But is it unreasonable to say that when it comes down to it, because of biology women actually can’t have it all, or am I missing something here?

OP posts:
rattymol · 29/04/2023 10:46

Anyone who is an active involved parent can't have it all.

Botw1 · 29/04/2023 10:50

@rattymol

Why not?

Paddypartypower · 29/04/2023 11:21

@rattymol

Agreed. There’s only so many hours in the day. There is always a shortfall….. somewhere. I’ve made sure that shortfall isn’t my kids. My mum spent years nursing and climbing to the top of that tree. She actually regrets it now she’s retired. Regrets ever nursing and spending soooooo long out of the house on shifts, particularly during our adolescence.

LolaSmiles · 29/04/2023 11:22

Anyone who is an active involved parent can't have it all.
They can, they just have a realistic idea of what "all" is.

My house isn't Instagram worthy and I'm not one of those Mumsnetters who needs feel 20 minutes away from being guest-ready at any time, but that doesn't bother me. Someone might think that's not having it "all", but if that's not something that has high value in my life then it doesn't affect me.

Some people might say that us taking simple family holidays means we don't have it all, but we have holidays we enjoy.
Some people might think we need newer cars, or to afford a cleaner, or have nicer clothes or better technology or a bigger house, but that's only because that's what they value.

DH and I are both part time, both progressing in our careers, our DC are happy and have lots of quality time, we have some family close by, we have time for us all to pursue our interests.

I'd say we have it all because we have all that matters to us.

RosaBonheur · 29/04/2023 11:31

Thesharkradar · 28/04/2023 21:44

she put it down to the fact that she'd had her mother at home all the time and not gone to nursery at a young age like her older sister
she would say that though....wouldnt she!

Why?

She didn't need to say anything at all.

5128gap · 29/04/2023 11:32

I agree in principle OP. But tbh don't think yours is the best example. The reason you're not taking the new role is because the perks in your current one are over and above the norm, so your bar is high. The vast majority of people are not in roles where they recieve so much more than the statutory minimum and get the potential for private fertility treatment. You sound more like a person who simply can't afford to leave a very good job rather than a woman who is disadvantaged at work because she wants children. So you're 'having it all' seems less about motherhood and more about you can't have both a new opportunity and the safety and perks of staying where you are. A choice everyone had to weigh up when considering a job change.

Botw1 · 29/04/2023 11:50

@Paddypartypower

Was she a single parent?

pompomdaisy · 29/04/2023 12:09

No I have it all at 56. Good salary, two kids (17 and 23). At 35 I only had a bit. It depends what age. How much of a partnership you have to share the load.

I don't believe anyone has it all in their thirties. It's a time when you feel you should but it's shit. Trying to find your way in work, adjust to life with babies, etc etc.

Easterfunbun · 29/04/2023 12:24

@Botw1

Yep. Father did one. We don’t speak to him. There was no one around in our adolescence despite her having enough money. Long, long shifts with overtime. She was successful in her career. I think working was obviously easier for her but leaving us all unattended for long periods had it’s effects.

Botw1 · 29/04/2023 12:39

@Easterfunbun @Paddypartypower

Do you have 2 accounts or are you just making shit up?

Nordicrain · 01/05/2023 07:25

Easterfunbun · 29/04/2023 12:24

@Botw1

Yep. Father did one. We don’t speak to him. There was no one around in our adolescence despite her having enough money. Long, long shifts with overtime. She was successful in her career. I think working was obviously easier for her but leaving us all unattended for long periods had it’s effects.

You know the choices for most parents aren't (1) be a SAHM or (2) have a career and just leave your kids uattended for extended periods right?

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 01/05/2023 09:40

Paddypartypower · 29/04/2023 11:21

@rattymol

Agreed. There’s only so many hours in the day. There is always a shortfall….. somewhere. I’ve made sure that shortfall isn’t my kids. My mum spent years nursing and climbing to the top of that tree. She actually regrets it now she’s retired. Regrets ever nursing and spending soooooo long out of the house on shifts, particularly during our adolescence.

I always made sure that the shortfall wasn't my dc too. Her wellbeing has been my absolute priority at all times, she has positively thrived at every step of the way, and we have an incredibly close relationship. Fortunately for me, I have been able to progress a very successful career alongside this, enabling me to use my skills to contribute to wider society. Additionally, I have been able to provide my dd with a model that leaves her in no doubt that it is possible for women to combine work and family life effectively. This has been important to me as I would hate her to feel like she has to make a choice like some of the women on MN seem to believe!

I know that some SAHPs desperately want the kids of WOHPs to be miserable or neglected or insecurely attached or whatever, presumably because it somehow makes them feel better about the choices that they have made, but the reality is that kids can and do thrive with both parents in work, and WOHPs can be very involved and hands-on parents.

If you choose to SAH because that works for your family, then that is an entirely valid choice and you don't have to justify it to anyone... I'm sure that your spouse and kids will appreciate what you do. You really don't need to validate your choices by pretending that the kids of women who work outside the home are somehow going to be at a disadvantage because their mothers have maintained a career...it isn't true and it just makes you look like you're having doubts about your own decisions.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 01/05/2023 09:42

Oh, and fwiw, my mum desperately regrets having been a SAHM. People regret all kinds of things for all kinds of different reasons. It doesn't actually prove anything.

RosaBonheur · 01/05/2023 10:12

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 01/05/2023 09:40

I always made sure that the shortfall wasn't my dc too. Her wellbeing has been my absolute priority at all times, she has positively thrived at every step of the way, and we have an incredibly close relationship. Fortunately for me, I have been able to progress a very successful career alongside this, enabling me to use my skills to contribute to wider society. Additionally, I have been able to provide my dd with a model that leaves her in no doubt that it is possible for women to combine work and family life effectively. This has been important to me as I would hate her to feel like she has to make a choice like some of the women on MN seem to believe!

I know that some SAHPs desperately want the kids of WOHPs to be miserable or neglected or insecurely attached or whatever, presumably because it somehow makes them feel better about the choices that they have made, but the reality is that kids can and do thrive with both parents in work, and WOHPs can be very involved and hands-on parents.

If you choose to SAH because that works for your family, then that is an entirely valid choice and you don't have to justify it to anyone... I'm sure that your spouse and kids will appreciate what you do. You really don't need to validate your choices by pretending that the kids of women who work outside the home are somehow going to be at a disadvantage because their mothers have maintained a career...it isn't true and it just makes you look like you're having doubts about your own decisions.

Show quote history

This.

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 10:39

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

Funny how sahms have to go to the bother of making up different accounts to prove how neglectful being a wm is

🙄

mrlistersgelfbride · 01/05/2023 11:41

I'm not sure what having it all is.
I'm able to spend quality time with DD, I have a job I love, sometimes do my hobby, and go out with friends occasionally. It's not a bad life, but it doesn't feel like 'having it all' either.
I have one child who is in reception (age 5).
I think it's harder to have it all if you have more than one child and/or lack of support. The latter is why I've chosen to have only 1.

I know women who seem to "have it all" but the partners do the majority of school runs, a lot of housework, get up with the kids at night plus they have lots of support from grandparents etc. I'm not sure I'd want that, I'd miss DD too much.
I had DD in the middle of my master's and I had to go back to work to finish it when she was 8 months old. I put her in nursery (which turned out to be no good) whilst I was working long hours, driving 60 miles a day and we were both suffering. I feel guilty about that now and I'm so glad it's over. Not something I'd want to repeat.

Women tend to get stuck in a half way house of having a part time job and being a SAHM whilst feeling they can't give 100% to either role. At least, that's how I feel.

Notimeforaname · 01/05/2023 12:02

But is it unreasonable to say that when it comes down to it, because of biology women actually can’t have it all, or am I missing something here?

Yes this is true.
You cannot be a full time mum and a full time worker. It's nobodies fault we were born women. That's just life.

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 12:07

@Notimeforaname

Of course you cant.

Saying you can't have it all because you can't do 2 full time things at once doesn't even make sense

You can have a balance of both, which does make sense and is having it all.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 01/05/2023 12:33

Notimeforaname · 01/05/2023 12:02

But is it unreasonable to say that when it comes down to it, because of biology women actually can’t have it all, or am I missing something here?

Yes this is true.
You cannot be a full time mum and a full time worker. It's nobodies fault we were born women. That's just life.

Well, you can't be a SAHP while you're out at work, but of course you're still a mum. And that doesn't stop when you're out at work earning money to put food on the table for your children and a roof over their heads.

Childcare is one aspect of parenting, but it isn't the only aspect. Providing for them is also essential. You don't stop being a mum when you go out to work any more than you stop being a mum when your child goes to school. We are all full time parents.

And working outside of the home might mean that you spend a bit less time on childcare but it doesn't mean that you have to sacrifice the quality of your relationship with your child or that you will have a less close bond.

TheMoops · 01/05/2023 13:08

You cannot be a full time mum and a full time worker. It's nobodies fault we were born women. That's just life.

Well, you can't be a SAHP and work full time but working doesn't mean you stop being a full time parent.
You're just parenting differently.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 01/05/2023 13:10

It's amazing how the children of SAHPs apparently survive on thin air without the need for a parent to provide financially.

Nordicrain · 01/05/2023 13:12

Notimeforaname · 01/05/2023 12:02

But is it unreasonable to say that when it comes down to it, because of biology women actually can’t have it all, or am I missing something here?

Yes this is true.
You cannot be a full time mum and a full time worker. It's nobodies fault we were born women. That's just life.

Funnily enough I am a mum even when I am working. So i am absolutely a full time mum. Or do SAHMs become part time mums too when their kids go to school? If it's jsut physical seperation how many hours do I need to physically be with my children to be a full time parent? Are working dads not full time dads? In which case basically noone has a full time dad?

I would like more information on the criteria to be a parent all of the time.

DojaPhat · 01/05/2023 13:16

No woman can have it all. Even someone like Kate Middleton who ostensibly has it all still has to make trade offs elsewhere - yes those trade offs are probably not that big of a deal; do I wear the pearl shape or square diamond or can I meet just one baby and not 3 or 4 babies in the crowd etc etc but it's still a trade off. What you do have though is choice - and that's what women fought for in the most broad brush stroke.

Botw1 · 01/05/2023 13:16

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

Ah. But didn't you know?

When men are working parents and have a sahm at home they are still full time dads who are always equal and fully involved and active parents who also do an equal amount of housework. As well as paying all the bills.

It's only working mums who have no involvement in their children's lives.

I'm still not quite sure who sahms think look after the children of wms? Maybe they think they're kept in a cupboard overnight or something

babyproblems · 01/05/2023 13:16

Whilst money remains the be all and end all pf our society, having children will be a disadvantage.
Capitalism doesn’t place any value on child rearing whatsoever and probably won’t until there’s no people left to employ. I think what happens at that point will be very grim. Maybe we will be saved by climate change and be no point in the human race continuing!!

It was only when I had a baby that I saw all the hidden misogyny all around me; even in all the men I knew and loved. My dad, my DH, my brothers, my FIL, my colleagues. It’s still shit for women in 2023 is the truth.

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