To think that women still can’t have it all?

[Oldbalance]

Posting this off the back of recent decisions I had to made, that have got me thinking about the sacrifices women continue to make if the want DC.

DH and I are TTC our first DC, I am 35 and DH is 38 so already time is less on my side. I was recently offered a new role with a pay rise, but would need to work there for the qualifying period before being entitled to maternity pay, which was only enhanced for 6 weeks. In my current company full salary is paid for 5 months stepping down to half pay. Due to rising COL we would struggle to have a decent quality of life on one salary and that is despite having a small mortgage. In addition the private medical cover in my role covers fertility treatment if we need it, it wouldn’t in new role. Weighing these things up, I decided not to take it, even for the initial pay raise, with a view to looking again if we cannot conceive.

Whilst DH sympathises, I did have to highlight to him the difficulty women face due to these circumstances and when I spelled it all out to him I think he started to understand why it’s a crap deal for women. He is the higher earner to it doesn’t make sense for him to take paternity leave which would be unpaid, it has never even been a consideration that he wouldn’t take a job for more money because of these reasons.

When weighing up what to do, quite a few family members and friends were pretty resigned to the fact that women just can’t have it all and now I’m inclined to agree even though in the past I would have said it was rubbish. But is it unreasonable to say that when it comes down to it, because of biology women actually can’t have it all, or am I missing something here?

This person doesn’t understand jokes.

'This person' does ... when they are funny 😀

The issue is that you and your DH (I assume) knew you wanted to have children, but he did not factor this into his career planning.

Exactly.

IMO the change needs to come from men.
We know that women factor in the family friendliness of a career/organisation before they even have, or think of having children. We need more men to do this to drive change.

Another one that thinks you should have taken the job. It took me a year to even get pregnant from when we started trying! And that was with intervention which we didn't hang around about.

My husband’s attitude changed when he took leave after DS2. He realised how hard it was then. I think the OP’s attitude to her DH taking unpaid leave is almost guaranteed to set her up to fail at managing to combine work and family.

Everyone is selfish in their own way.
Parents are selfish because the force yet another person to live here, without their consent.
I find that cruel.

I’ve been told many times I’m selfish for not having kids. It used to piss me off, but I matured and know now that it’s their problem, not mine.

But I do wish that parents wouldn’t put that halo on top of their heads and sure us that their kids are going to save the world or whatever.
No one had thei kids thinking those kids will grow up to wipe elserly people’s asses.
C’mon.
You had them because you wanted, that’s it.
I didn’t cause I don’t want to, that’s it.
Also, if you’re saying the kids now are future doctors and nurses, then do remember that some of those kids are future rapists and criminal. Who knows, maybe yours turns out to be a drug addict who will know the old me over the head to steal that iphone of my you mentioned, for a fix.
Only time will tell.

So as a new mum myself, I would say that we can have it all- but not all at the same time. So right now is my time to focus on my family (that will include not moving to a more local job for the exact same reasons you haven't taken your new job offer). However that will last for a certain period and as my family get bigger and more independent then I can focus on myself and my career more again. I think the cost of living is really making everyone feel the pinch and it's certainly slowed down our timelines for our goals but that doesn't mean we can't achieve them at a slower pace? I think if you have certain dreams but you accept that when you do them needs to be flexible then it makes things much easier. That being said I also have a dh who would back me 100% if there was something I wanted to do and he's very committed to his responsibility as a coparent. As I chose to breastfeed there are certain sacrifices that come with that but that was a choice I weighed up and for me the benefits outweigh the negatives and again I won't be doing that forever so I can always revisit the things I want to do then.

I'm sorry you lost out on what sounds like a good job offer though, it's hard when the right thing comes along at the wrong time but hopefully it'll come back to you if it's meant to be!

Your attitude, and that of many, is wrong. The only person limiting you is you. You have choices. Don't pass up a promotion because of TTC, negotiate better terms or don't take the new job because the t's and c's aren't good enough.
Equally don't put off TTC because of work.

I have a successful career and a family. I didn't restrict myself to choosing one over the other. Granted it's not easy, especially as I don't have a lot of support and an often sick husband, but it is possible to do both. They're not mutually exclusive, and one doesn't have to limit the other, unless you let it.

If you want to progress your career, do it, and if you choose not to because of TTC, own that choice.
I wish you the best of luck with achieving the balance that works for you.

My husband makes career choices based on parental leave offerings of current and prospective employers too. Trouble is that a lot of women won't surrender half their leave to their partners under the shared parental leave scheme (even with father's being offered generous leave policies too), and then complain that their careers are taking the full hit. Yes you can't have it all- you can't have the full year leave and no impact on your career....but you can share your leave and both you and your partner will experience the same impact.

IMO the change needs to come from men
I agree and hopefully they will see that it's in everyone's interests for this to happen, but will they willingly cede power?

As others have stated I don't think anyone has it all but I do feel women were sold a lie by implying that they could have it all as in successful, career, kids life etc. It simply doesn't work that way. Something has to give.

I got extremely frustrated a few years ago as my career had plateaued mainly due to raising my 3 kids, taking time off and going part-time. My husband's career has gone from strength to strength and I was fed up. I went back to college to do a masters which was tough going and once completed started job hunting for a position that would be a progression from where I was. I did get a couple of job offers and when I weighed it all up as in longer hours, having to put my youngest in after school and not being here when my teens got home plus having to spend weekends catching up on house work shopping etc I realised that wasn't what I wanted and actually I had it pretty good with a good work life balance. Yes my husband could have gone part-time and let me do full-time but I figured I had the better deal and didn't want to give it up. So life is what you make it and maybe try and accept the choices you make and get on with it. What I will say though is I don't think it should or needs to be the woman that makes the career sacrifices and sometimes the dad is the one working part-time but I don't know how both parents manage two full-time jobs I know I would have struggled with that.

You dont need to live on one salary
Go back o work once mat leave on enhnaced or full pay ends
Childcare paid from joint
If you love the new job take it
You and dh can adapt

But, a job you know with good benefits is a good choice to make with a potential baby

Your dh can consider his choices too as a future parent

Depends on your definition of having it all, I guess. I feel that I have "had it all" personally. I have been able to be a very hands on parent and work flexibly around my dd's needs while also getting to the very top of my field in my career. It hasn't always been easy, but it has been worth it. My career may have progressed a bit more slowly than it might have done if I hadn't been a parent, but it did still progress. And I have a truly wonderful relationship with dd, who is very happy, balanced and now looking forward to a successful career of her own.

I certainly feel that I have had a much better deal than my own mother, who gave up her career to be a SAHP and has regretted it ever since. And I am confident that my dd will be able to find her own happy balance between career and family life because she has grown up with a model in which this has worked really well for all of us.

@Dulra

I do feel women were sold a lie by implying that they could have it all as in successful, career, kids life etc. It simply doesn't work that way

This just isn’t true. Most of my friends have kids and a successful career.

I don't believe they can.
I know someone who was very much a career woman but she also hated the idea of childcare for her school age kids who were acting out for the nanny. She thought she could do school drop offs, work from home once a week and do the before and after school run etc all while earning the big bucks. I guess for some they get lucky enough that they can work from home with flexibility and earn a big salary but many cannot.

Yes indeed.

I think it's true to say that it doesn't work that way for some women. Maybe those who have particularly inflexible employers and/or partners who won't pull their weight etc. Many women do achieve a happy balance though, and it has been very important to me to be able to model this for my dd.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

It’s definitely the case that working FT when you have kids is harder, more exhausting and requires higher levels of organisation. Some people don’t want to do that and that’s fine.

But people keep saying it’s “impossible” when what they actually mean is they don’t want to or can’t get their husbands to get behind the idea.

It’s misleading but it matters because it’s very damaging to women when people hammer down on their progress and tell them it’s an illusion and a confidence truck by the patriarchy and all this gubbins. If you don’t like working FT fine but don’t presume to tell other women they can’t do it either.

What does “have it all” even mean? Is it high paying job, 2 kids that you spend loads of time with, a big house, a husband you love and adore and also spend time with and holidays to your villa in the Maldives every year? I’m obviously being flippant because nobody can “have it all”. Everything involves some sort of sacrifice. The quality of life you don’t want on one salary is quite likely having it all for others. If I didn’t have kids sure I’d have a nicer car, better (relaxing!) holidays and more free time but would I “have it all”? No.

It’s not just women either, you rightly say paternity pay is awful and that riles me up, DH had the least possible and had to go back to work, missing out on so much. How can men bond with their kids in 2 weeks when most of that time DS or DD is asleep.

To be fair, no one can have it all. Men don't get to be a hands on parent full time and have a full time career (though generally they don't really want to). I think the entitlement to maternity leave is the exception though because the mother MUST take at least some of it and more than the compulsory two weeks if she needs more time to recover from birth and if the parents agree the child should be breastfed. Though I would have taken the job anyway. I had a similar dilemma as the opportunity to change to a better role coincided with when we'd planned to try for a second. I took the job and we started trying anyway (earlier than I would have been able to secure enhanced leave) but it took a few years to succeed and I was really glad of the pay rise in the meantime, not least because some of it funded fertility investigations etc. I'd say don't put your life and career on hold.

I'm not quite sure why this is addressed to me? Are you agreeing with me or have you somehow misinterpreted what I am saying?

I have always worked FT fwiw. Very flexibly, but FT nonetheless. I feel that I have been able to achieve a good balance between work and family despite working FT, qnd I agree, it is entirely possible if you want to do it. Not everyone does, and that's OK too. But yes, we should not be telling the next generation of young women that they have to choose. Why should they?

YANBU. I'm 59 now and in some ways it's worse than ever. Something almost always has to give, often it's mums mental health and burnout comes.

There are some, but very few women who appear to be able to do it all but maybe it's an illusion? I've never asked any of them.

Well I think we have ‘it all’. Good careers, which are very flexible, 2 very happy, well adjusted kids (in spite of the 😩 childcare). Now my kids are both in school we have no childcare as our jobs are flexible and allow us to pop out and do school runs, work from their after school activities etc…

Notice how I say ‘we’ because the only way women can have ‘it all’ is if they have a partner and equally split everything with their partner. That means both earning, both looking after the kids, both sorting the house, both doing the 🤢life admin.

There are 2 issues that hold us back with this; firstly most women don’t want to split childcare/housework equally with their partner. They want to be the default parent and they want everything done they way they want it. Secondly, men aren’t demanding flexibility at work. Why they’re not doing that is probably a combination of things but a lot of it is driven by the women.

Just as a side, it’s a lot easier to ‘have it all’ if you have more than the socially accepted norm of 1.5-2.5 years between children.

Having 2 close together would have meant that our childcare would have been a massive chunk of our household income. NOT a massive part of my income so my take home would be negligible, as is oft quoted on here.

If it’s possible due to age I highly recommend waiting until one is in school before you have a second. Like both of my sets of grandparents did incidentally, as they didn’t want to live beyond their means.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

It wasn't addressed to you particularly it was following your comment. Sorry.

Funnyface36, does that include all babies in pre school? My DD hasn't long turned 1 and is in nursery 2 mornings a week, you now have me worried I have done the wrong thing.

He is the higher earner

I'd start by wondering why he is already the higher earner, before you have any children to impact your career?